LV.4 discipline weapon focus

[Wyrmwrath]

They have mechanical effects and as such they need rules.

Well then...getting enough sleep has a mechanical effect, since if i dont have enough sleep i dont fight and think as efficently. I demand rules for getting enough sleep.

Eating...eating has a similar effect on mechanics. I demand rules on eating.

Arriving early to events has a mechanical effect, since if you arrive late you have less information to use your in game skills correctly therefore it has a mechanical effect. Guess we need to have rules about getting to the event early.

Having youR weapon in your hand when no conbat is going on as opposed to through your belt has a mechanical effect. Better get some rules on that.

Travis , first I am not directing this at you, but at the rules making body controling the LARP. I get that your trying to explain why the dumbest rule in LARP history has to be because your staff, but seriously, I know you are way to bright to actualy think drinking a potion has to be labeled a skill.
The WISE route would be alter the effects of potions when someone is poisoned; as in the poison prevents the potion from being effective, so needs to be cleansed/removed first.
Unless someone is incapacitated, not being able to put a vial to your lips and swallow is a idiotic.

[Leo]

Well then...getting enough sleep has a mechanical effect, since if i dont have enough sleep i dont fight and think as efficently. I demand rules for getting enough sleep.

Eating...eating has a similar effect on mechanics. I demand rules on eating.

Arriving early to events has a mechanical effect, since if you arrive late you have less information to use your in game skills correctly therefore it has a mechanical effect. Guess we need to have rules about getting to the event early.

Having youR weapon in your hand when no conbat is going on as opposed to through your belt has a mechanical effect. Better get some rules on that.

I understand you have something to say about everything but when its not constructive, why say it?

A potion isn't you, I dont care if your poisoned or not, you should be able to drink it. Poison effects YOU not a potion. I understand that yes, drinking a potion is a count based skill but, if you have the Phys rep there isn't a count. So this shouldn't even be a passive or active skill debate. Does anyone think they can drink water when poisoned? This is the real question.

really...whats the skill point cost of drink potion? what path or discipline does it fall under? i sthere a LP cost or a charge time?

I am just going to post what the book says.

Drink Potion
All potions must have a tag stating what the potion is and what it does. To use a potion you must
do a 5count to simulate drinking a potion and than read the tag. Only then does the potion take
effect. If you have a phys-rep of the potion that is more than the tag, you only need no mimic the
act of drinking a potion and then read the tag to have the potion take effect. Only 1 potion can be
used at a time.

Oh, and if someone is incapacitated they shouldn't be able to drink, infact i'd go as far as to say giving them a potion of any kind would be a killing blow. As you are drowning them in that 5 count whilst they cannot swallow.

[Wyrmwrath]

I understand you have something to say about everything but when its not constructive, why say it?

First I dont comment on everything, since there are scores of threads I havent replied to. Its unfortunate if, me speaking my mind on topics relevent to me, displeases you; but I do not care if you like it...just to be clear.

Second, I see it as rather constructive. Just because you cannot see that stating the point in such a radical way to show how nuts the rule is, is irrelevent. Please see the las line of the above paragraph.

Oh, and if someone is incapacitated they shouldn't be able to drink, infact i'd go as far as to say giving them a potion of any kind would be a killing blow. As you are drowning them in that 5 count whilst they cannot swallow.

Not sure if this was meant to be a rebutal to my comment:

Unless someone is incapacitated, not being able to put a vial to your lips and swallow is a idiotic

, but if it was and you go reread mine; we stated the same opinion.

[cole45]

Well then...getting enough sleep has a mechanical effect, since if i dont have enough sleep i dont fight and think as efficently. I demand rules for getting enough sleep.

Eating...eating has a similar effect on mechanics. I demand rules on eating.

Arriving early to events has a mechanical effect, since if you arrive late you have less information to use your in game skills correctly therefore it has a mechanical effect. Guess we need to have rules about getting to the event early.



Please show the page where these mechanical effects are listed and I will have them labeled as skills.

I think your wrapped up in the word SKILL. how about ACTION. is that better?

before the rule people would mix potions together for a cure 5, use them with powerful magic items for combos that never were ment to exist and with things that were balanced by rendering them helpless. (like being tied up.)

This way they can't do any of that.

sure we could recall dozens of tags and a new section to the rule book called actions, but it's allot easier to just make it a skill and use the existing rules for them.

swinging a weapon for one was left out on purpose so no matter that unless you had an effect that said other wise you could do that.

it it ideal? no, it's compromise.



Kiel: breaks using skills for cool-downs I don;t know about. It was decided the skills with cooldowns were so powerful they warranted that limitation.

FYI, I don't get a vote. I get to talk on the GM threads. I don;t want to sound like to talk for all of the gms.

[Zeira]

The only thing I can think of as far as breaks applying to potions and cooldown relates to the fact that you COULDN'T use potions like Amnesia and Poison on a character due to the rule write up.

I guess it could be considered bad to pop a transformation potion while being in cooldown but I actually just consider that to be part of the Wizard path so that after they cast their big spell they are still relevant.

I'm all for balance and I can definately see where magic items can generate a cause for concern because of the variety of power they provide. However in regards to the skills listed in that section I do not see a very obvious break if you are allowed to use any of those actions in conjunction with other active skills or while in cooldown or poisoned.

It would be awesome if someone could find these breaks and point them out to me.

[cole45]

I personally want cooldown to only affect cooldown skills.

[Wyrmwrath]

before the rule people would mix potions together for a cure 5, use them with powerful magic items for combos that never were ment to exist and with things that were balanced by rendering them helpless. (like being tied up.)

This way they can't do any of that.

While I understand such exploits have happened and are often attempted in a forming LARP/Game, the new rule about only one potion or spell affect at a time cures that.

sure we could recall dozens of tags and a new section to the rule book called actions, but it's allot easier to just make it a skill and use the existing rules for them.

It MAY be easier, but it isnt the RIGHT fix. If the staff wants I will come to the July WH and the next FH events and sot all day saturday to exchange potion and spell tags and item tags so that this rules can be killed as it needs to be. I am MORE than willing to take the burden form the staff to make the rules work as they SHOULD, even if I have to cover expense of printing as well.

swinging a weapon for one was left out on purpose so no matter that unless you had an effect that said other wise you could do that.

That doesnt make it any better, and honestly bothers me even more when there are two standards.

Like I said before, not meant to be directed AT you, you are the one just pointing out the what and why, so you are the one whose leg I am gnawing off over this. I apologise about that....but your leg is kinda tasty...must be the Axe body spray!

[cole45]

Again I am just not sure WHY you have a issue with drinking a potion operating under the same rules as all the other skills. Why would you not want IN GAME MECHANICAL effects to be determined by a rule?

is that you can't see how it is a SKILL? is the word skill?


what if we said actions? You can only take actions if your awake right? like talking to to people and dropping a sword. You can't do that when your dead....

wait that looks just like the skill rule.....

in DND it's a simple action to drink a potion.

in fantasycraft it's a half action.

you can't any of those when dead or dying....

I just don't see how those are different.


you say "How can drinking be an skill/action?"
I say "How can it NOT be?"

[Wyrmwrath]

Again I am just not sure WHY you have a issue with drinking a potion operating under the same rules as all the other skills. Why would you not want IN GAME MECHANICAL effects to be determined by a rule?

Its because its NOT an IN GAME MECHANICAL effect, what the potion DOES ...is an in game effect, drinking it is just phys reping/role playing. From a game world perspective its the same as eating or talking.

is that you can't see how it is a SKILL? is the word skill?

its because of what started this tirade on my part:

But what about pairing it with Assassin to do 35 Vorpal to the back of a PC? Pop a potion and you are back up and running.

it's a life point skill, you can't combine it vorpal. or anything else.

In this example, your saying that because the PC used a LP skill they cannt drink a potion, even if they are still consious and above 0LP.

I get you cant at 0LP since, without something like determination, your barely able to talk. Makes sense to not be able to drink a potion in that situation. B ut NNOT because its a skill, just because your barely conscious.

But your method also means that if a PC uses a skill like vorpal, that while its active they cant drink a potion and thats just silly.

in DND it's a simple action to drink a potion. in fantasycraft it's a half action. I just don't see how those are different.

Its different BECAUSe this is a LARP and the reason those are given action status is to help track in game time, which is done at a LARP by actualy doing the action and therefore taking REAL TIME to do so. That means artificial time tracking isnt needed.

[cole45]

But what about pairing it with Assassin to do 35 Vorpal to the back of a PC? Pop a potion and you are back up and running.

Quote:
it's a life point skill, you can't combine it vorpal. or anything else.


well in that case you can't combine them because the VORPAL skill only works on CHARGED skills not life point skills. totally different.


and no if you have a skill charged, drinking a potion could and SHOULD disrupt it. being TOUCHED disrupts the skill. This is as true for vorpal as it is for an empath boom.

[cole45]

Its because its NOT an IN GAME MECHANICAL effect, what the potion DOES ...is an in game effect, drinking it is just phys reping/role playing. From a game world perspective its the same as eating or talking.


That's a huge stretch to say that the very act of doing something isn't part of the effect. Drinking the potion is HOW you perform the skill. just like spending a life point is how you parry. according to you spending a life point isn't part of the skill.

In your universe can you drink a potion while you are dead unconscious or helpless? (those are the exact rules of skills.)

if not , it is THE SAME thing as being a skill.

[Dallid]

An RP way to look at is the poison in your system supersedes any beneficial potion affect.

For instance, I am bitten by a cobra and its venom is now liquifying my innards.
I take some Nyquil to feel better.
However, as more time passes I only seem to feel worse. The poison made the Nyquil potion effects negligable.

[Wyrmwrath]

it's a life point skill, you can't combine it vorpal. or anything else.

well in that case you can't combine them because the VORPAL skill only works on CHARGED skills not life point skills. totally different.

I do not understand how vorpal only wokes on charged skills. The swashbuckler doesnt use it on any other skills. The assassin adds it by charging it, but my issue is with drinking a potion being dissalowed while another skill is in effect over time (Vorpal and hold ground spring to mind as active skills where drinking a potion would not disrupt the skill) and the player is above 0LP, since determination already states they can use a potion at or below 0LP.

and no if you have a skill charged, drinking a potion could and SHOULD disrupt it. being TOUCHED disrupts the skill. This is as true for vorpal as it is for an empath boom.

I agree that the level of concentration required by a charged skill would prevent use of a potion, because i see charged skills sort of like spinning plates on poles, hard if not impossible to drink a glass of water in one draught and keep the plates spinning.

But vorpal IS different. Its more like a burst of willpoer to jump to a rope over a pit and hang there. Once its active (your clinging to the rope) grabing a vial from a pouch may not be easy, but its as doable as grabbbing and drinking it during combat.

Drinking the potion is HOW you perform the skill.

My issue is that you are seeing it as a skill because it has an ingame effect, yet its no different than drinking water. BREWING the potion is the skill.

I agree with Doug on how potions should interact with poison. The only potion that SHOULD work are those specific to ridding the poison effect.

[cole45]

But vorpal IS different. Its more like a burst of willpoer to jump to a rope over a pit and hang there. Once its active (your clinging to the rope) grabing a vial from a pouch may not be easy, but its as doable as grabbbing and drinking it during combat.



YOU see it that way. I see it that vorpal (and rage) require SO MUCH concentration and focus you can't do anything else. Hense no charge up skills or life point skills.

If it were burst of will power, it would be a lifepoint skill.

as far as hold ground, you would actually do better dropping hold ground, drinking the pot, and turning it one again for the 10 life.

[GM-Phil]

How about you look at it this way -

I think we all agree that "Drinking" the potion is not the issue, anyone can drink something in most circumstances.. it is the effect of the potion that is the issue -


So look at it in the way - If you are under an effect like a "cooldown" or similar effect that would disallow potion use - just think of it as you are drinking the potion, but due to the stress on your body from whatever is affecting you the potion itself has no effect.

You can use Doug's reasoning for Poison, under a Cooldown you can think of your body as being so worn out that the potion cannot take effect.

Mechanics wise though a potion effect is considered a charged skill and cannot be used in conjunction with other skills. Now even though having a phys-rep gets rid of the charge time, a potion is still considered a charged skill.

Now if we can get it passed that Cooldown skills only effect other cooldown skills that will help this issue immensely.