way off topic

[General Maximus]

What is religon? having a moral code and or laws is not religion. Is what Dallid did considered religion or is just his opinion. Did he meet the below criteria? I do ot know becasue I did not have much interaction with Dallod. Here is what I pulled from internet.

A religion is a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a supernatural agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

Aspects of religion include narrative, symbolism, beliefs, and practices that are supposed to give meaning to the practitioner's experiences of life. Whether the meaning centers on a deity or deities, or an ultimate truth,[1] religion is commonly identified by the practitioner's prayer, ritual, meditation, music and art, among other things, and is often interwoven with society and politics. It may focus on specific supernatural, metaphysical, and moral claims about reality (the cosmos and human nature) which may yield a set of religious laws, ethics, and a particular lifestyle. Religion also encompasses ancestral or cultural traditions, writings, history, and mythology, as well as personal faith and religious experience.

[Zeira]

If I were a Witch, and I came to FH, I might be offended by the discipline called "Witch Hunter".

If you came to a new game and you were Jewish and the was a class called "Jew Hunter" would you be offended?

[GM_Chris]

Going to have more people respond to why they may want religion..a core reason not something surface before I respond to that. (Julie your answer was much more surface than core)

now

And on a side note, I'm not sure how changing the name of "Witch-Hunter" to "Magic-Hunter" would somehow "take your character" away from you. You define your chaarcter's chosen abilities (and your character) however you want to as long as you still follow the mechanics, the name should have very little to do with it. The abilities/discipline isn't the issue, the terminology is.

You may have noticed that I have not responded to any of your continual witch posts but will do so now since apparently you are incapable of dropping it.

Here it is in simple terms. The word "witch" is indeed used by certain modern day people as a religious identity. It is also used historically and in fantasy settings to mean no such thing at all. If a religious group started calling themselves Crafters, then should we change the language in the book? No. The point is witch is a term that is both religious and non religious.

To further the point I have friends who call themselves witches who have played the game throughout the years and not 1 has EVER EVER EVER told me they were offended by the terminology. I had 1 who came to 1 event, who told me they were offended by the term monk and was using it so he could come in as a wickin priest. When I told him I would stop using the term monk I was immediately told that he was not at all offended he just wanted to make a point. I allowed the monk in and continued to disallow the wickin priest.

If Ken is still a wickn, have not spoken to him in years, then have him call me to discuss the issue if has a problem, but until that time, I will not discuss the offensiveness, or the somehow apparent religious connotation to a word that is also used generically to mean no such thing in almost all aspects of our society.

[Dallid]

Dallid definitely follows a religion. He even prays, though he calls it 'meditating' or 'communiing with nature'.

Though there's never really any proof that he's not simply insane. Which I think is key to keeping it subtle.

[GM_Chris]

I have never had a problem with anything Dallid has done, and infact might have been part of the reason I have moved slightly on my position. Well that and reading genisis

[cole45]

Genesis wasn't star trek's best idea, that is for sure.

[GM_Chris]

WHAT Wrath of CON! Hmm I guess that did involve Genesis. Ok agreed

[Malachi]

As long as I am not penalized for my characters faith or beliefs, I have no problem disallowing religion.

[Kalphoenix]

My only real issue in this thread was with saying "No Religion" when there IS religion, and that it needs to be defined in such a way that people understand what is meant by that.

I will not discuss the offensiveness, or the somehow apparent religious connotation to a word that is also used generically to mean no such thing in almost all aspects of our society.

There is a point where I draw the line. And that whole post in all it's of it's ignorant, intolerant glory took all the patience out of me for trying to debate/discuss with you in one shot. I'm sorry if you somehow felt I was baiting you.

So you win, I'm done. I refuse to bang my head into the wall.

[GM_Chris]

LMAO You did realize I agreed with you??

Quote:
"Haven and it's staff does not endorse, deny or support (through plots, roleplay or otherwise) the existence of any deities or religions in the Phantera setting. There are no large groups of organized religion on Phantera. We do not discourage your character from having personal faiths and beliefs, but because it can be a problem/sensitive subject, we do ask that you keep it a subtle part of your roleplaying, at best."


Not a bad idea

[Atrum Draconus]

Julie, the use of religious terms and especially witch hunter has been brought up a few times before, you know that so don't act like this is all of a sudden something that came out of nowhere. I'm gonna make a new character and he'll be a honkey hunter and go around hunting white humans and we'll see just how long it's considered being super sensitive or ok.

Heidi, I stopped a long time ago. Because one Wiccan wasn't offended then all of them should feel the same way right. My whole point at the time was that you aren't going to hear that people are offended, they'll just never play your game and tell their friends why. Very few people actually go as far as lodging complaints to anonymous people, they just go somewhere else. I don't shop at Wal-Mart because I think they are a despicable company. Have I ever written them and told them or led some campaign against them? No, I just choose to spend my money elsewhere and tell my friends they should and give examples as to why.

[GM_Chris]

There is a BIG difference between the term witch hunter and the term Honkey hunter but still really funny.

I found a pro wicca site

http://www.neopagan.net/Witchcraft-Classifying.html

As with the words "artist," "doctor," "scientist," or "diviner," the word "witch" is almost meaningless without some sort of qualifying adjective in front of it. Here is a brief review, in alphabetical order, of the classification system I have created to distinguish the various European and American sorts of witches from one another. Note that several of these categories are capable of overlapping and/or of being mixed by living individuals.

Now the word "druid" I could definitely see an argument for. This word is definitely religious in the same way priest would be, but was carried over from D&D back when D&D druids didn't worship gods which is how it snuck in. I could get into a discussion with people on finding a new word.

The term "monk" which is usually associated in religious circles (Christian and Asian specifically) is allowed because it is defined as..

A man who is a member of a brotherhood living in a monastery and devoted to a discipline prescribed by his order: a Carthusian monk; a Buddhist monk.

So I could se a hidden discipline or an in-game organization called the brotherhood of bla which is made up of "monks" either mechanically or through RP. (THATS RIGHT YOU COULD BE A MONK AND NOT TAKE THE DISCIPLINE)

Then I could see a group formed that Hunts said brotherhood and thus be "monk hunters" which would be fine and completely non offensive.

Likewise witch is a generic term for someone who practices magic and thus "witch hunter" is not offensive. It would be offensive if I associated the term "witch" or "arcane" with a specific religious wiccan group which I do not.

BUT if people still think it is offensive then we need to discuss the removal of "magic" from the game. Since wiccan's practice witchcraft then in essence what we are doing is a mockery of their belief system no matter what term we use. It would be especially hurtful if we removed the term "witch hunter" and a person who played an arcane came into game and was killed by another player who hates "magic" if we are putting "magic" in the same term as "honky or nigger"

Hope I am making sense here.

[Aurora]

Erik, yep and every time it gets brought up I get annoyed because well I've seen the term used in movies and on tv plus not to mention a new video game I have. It's the same thing with the term druid. If I remember correctly the mmoprg game Warhamer actually has a Witch-Hunter class, so the term exists in the fantasy universe.

I guess I haven't heard the major beef for awhile and I thought for the most part people had grown out, of it or at the very least become more tollerant. There are terms people use I find actually offensive but I'll roll with it. Push comes to shove and Chris and Mike opted to called it Mage Hunter I'm cool with it since I came up with the term in the first place, but I don't see the change. I mean you could call it Arcane Slayer or Hunter, Inquistioninist, or something like but but bottom line, we're all going to get offended from time to time but I would like to think we can take the Steve Winwood approach and "Roll with it Baby".

[Ark]

i think i just play WAY too many games to be offended by the terms used.
-monk
-witch
-druid
-even priest

the priest was a healer in tactics ogre, never once cared about the name or thought about why it was called that.

when someone says "witch hunter" i think of someone that is good at fighting magic, not someobody's faith. when someone says "monk" i think of a fist fighter, in at least 5 different games i have played there has been a "monk" class, they have always been the same basic thing.

when i hear "witch" its a female spellcaster, "warlock" is male. dont think about faith at all.

"druid" is kind of like a mage to me, but earth based, useing nature and such, still not thinking about faith.

I think people CHOOSE to look at the faith side of it, even if they know there in a fantasy setting and know what is meant by the name, most of the time i think people are just looking for something to fight about.

If i was talking to somebody about character builds and said witch hunter, and they started spewing a bunch of faith stuff at me, i would probobly roll my eyes at them and tell them to go away.

you all know what is meant, dont make it about faith

[celegar]

im not sure, but it seems to me that this perfectly meaningful discussion has degeneration into a "walking on pins and needles" argument about worrying if somone is going to get offended.

its a game

in games people get pissed off

in high fantasy games, people use the imagination to create a fantasy world

in a fantasy world, things arnt parrallel to the real world

you got a problem with it, tough crap, deal with it or your obviously not mature enough to tell the difference between make believe and reality.