way off topic

Ark · Post by **Ark** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 8:34 pm

if all topics are going to be about mechanics that is, this is a rule question, kind of.

so finished up our first full year of Springhaven, and i have been writing world lore and info to give the new people something to build off of, wich is going great, i asked for people to submit any ideas that they would like me to add, and some of them im stumped on, as they are very rarly addressed at FH/WH

were does one go when they die? this goes many different ways, i have heard people get pulled out of the "void" and "either", i belive dallid returned to phanterra, trying to remember if he was upset when he came back, or do we all just end up in the cave of the dead

another was Race Beliefs, and im not talking ACTUAL religion, im talking about fantasy stuff, such as in elder scrolls games they have their "nine divines" and such. i think the only one that has been really well known is the Valkyn Vi one, are there others, do we even allow it to begin with?

is all of this pretty much left up to the players to Role play how they see fit?

Goonter · Post by **Goonter** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:47 am

Well I can kinda help answer the "religion" one... as far as I know, there are no actual divine beings. This is the reason we can't have "Holy Water" (an idea for a substance an alchemist could make, basically a packet driven potion that deals banish)

Zeira · Post by **Zeira** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:15 am

I believe that it's pretty much up to the players. As long as the way they are playing it in game isn't offending other players out of game.

Post by **GM_Chris** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:21 pm

After many many long years I think the lack of any kind of belief structure has actually caused harm.

The truth is we at FH have never ever said where people go but players have decided on their own a bunch of different things which has never been verified by a GM.

We have done this because a long long long, well before you might have been born, I said I didnt want people sim praying to fake gods in the game.

Honestly the idea still repulses me, and therefore we removed the concept of any real afterlife (though we still have ghosts without any lore based grounding)

Policy is still in place

Hope that makes sense

Onimaster · Post by **Onimaster** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 1:36 pm

In WH we have a similar policy, but we generally don't stop character's from having personal beliefs/rituals/mythology/moral code. Those thoughts are probably completely wrong... but they can believe whatever they like.

In the magical world of Phantara there are a lot of mystical events that here on Earth would be considered religion or mythology... There it would be more like a natural science. They are pretty sure you go someplace when you die, some people come back from the dead, some spirits are strong enough to go to stable spirit realm(s) or free roaming as undead spirits, some are sucked back into the ether stream to be reincarnated, some are torn apart never to be seen again...

What truly happens to an individual when they die is chaotic and unpredictable. I would think that people in a fantasy world like that would think of it as a transitional state rather than a true afterlife. Or perhapse a reward for status... "I wanna be an adventurer when I grow up.. then they will never let me stay dead. Hopefully. Guys?"

Ark · Post by **Ark** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 3:22 pm

thanks much, and it makes sense Chris, i knew why it wasnt in game, and understand why, its just one of those Chaotic and magic things of Phanterra

Rhul · Post by **Rhul** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:16 pm

Of course the "no afterlife in FH' thing doesn't hold water, as I have been on a plot to the Dwarven Hall of heroes in-game at my very first event, and it is widely joked that Durgan is the first Guthrie to be admitted there after the night of the burning skulls.

I can't see how having any kind of pseudo-religious beliefs can harm any game, unless someone is a kind of person who is in a situation where they honestly can't respect other real-life religions than their own. I have never once been in a rolepleying game where someone adhering to that game's established religions (for example a player's character following the Church of Morrow as opposed to Menoth or Toruk in the Iron Kingdoms RPG) has ever made anyone at the table uncomfortable(unless they are being uncomfortable in-game, of course).

Hell, right now, I am playing a RPG where one of the characters is a fallen angel walking the earth in the guise of a bum. *shrugs* Sure, whatever. (It sure helps with demon-hunting, though). I'm not the image of a 6'2", 250lb, bald, ex-military gun-bunny, either. That's what makes it an RPG rather than real life.

And anyway, I'm pretty sure "religion" is a moot point in FH, because if Rhul started worshipping Phanterra as a feminine-form nature diety, not one player would even pay attention, let alone care. I can only see religion (albeit fake religion) becoming something distasteful if some player decided to start a cult or church, attempting to make belief (either way) in that form affect player-player interaction.

THAT I would want to put a stop to, because I don't believe in forcing religious beliefs on anyone else for any reason. But then again, I can't ever see that happening in the first place because we are all of a friendly attitude, inter-group.

Ark · Post by **Ark** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 4:27 pm

Rhul wrote: And anyway, I'm pretty sure "religion" is a moot point in FH, because if Rhul started worshipping Phanterra as a feminine-form nature diety, not one player would even pay attention, let alone care.

not true, if it was a beutifull loving feminine form i could totally jump on worshiping with you.

Zeira · Post by **Zeira** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 4:52 pm

Wait, did you just say that you wanted to...with Rhul and some random nature diety? This is getting weird...

Ark · Post by **Ark** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 5:25 pm

like the topic said.....WAY off topic.

i do feel that we are missing a BIG role playing scene by removing beliefs from the world, however, i do see the other side of not allowing them, though we do have many little nods out there already.

the Cathedral, wich i know is just used to set up a look and feel for a building, works great.

Paladins, a "do gooder" discipline, cant really do evil things with it, you could NOT heal people, but thats the worst you could do.

Rhul · Post by **Rhul** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 6:41 pm

Wait, did you just say that you wanted to...with Rhul and some random nature diety? This is getting weird...

Not really, but it makes a good example. A Druid worshipping a nature diety, which in many RPG is a feminine form (in the IK it's Dhunia) which makes "reincarnation" easier to understand....could just as easy be a male version such as the Green Man from real-life Celtic lore.

Onimaster · Post by **Onimaster** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 7:08 pm

Well, as Chris said it would bother him, and once upon a time he was a player or someone else could feel just as strongly. So, you can't claim no one would care. We have proof at least someone would care if they saw it.

To me, the issue is one of ooc beliefs. Chris stated that the idea of people praying to a false god or idol because it was part of a game could be seen as a sin or maybe just too close for comfort. When I reflect on the issue I don't see it that way in that the game is fictional, and we know it's not true in our hearts. There is no faith or belief in it, so it's no worse than writing a fictional novel or short story where the characters conduct a faith different than their own. For example a Christian allegory, C.S. Lewis' Narnia.

If people see characters acting or speaking in a way that makes them uncomfortable we have the safety calls. That is what 'apple' and 'orange' are for.

celegar · Post by **celegar** » Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:02 am

id have to agree that because the game is fictional, and that everyone accepts it as fictional, that an argument of it bothering somone out of character would hold little water in all actuality. we have people that are canibalistic and some other people that support slavery, even though out of game we absolutely dont think so and somone doing so would bother us.

but ill have to agree with chris that making a diety set into the rules and sourcing certain things from those dieties may make people uncomfortable and put them in a wierd place(since they are forced to worship the diety to do something). but on the same coin, if somone decides to make up their own fake thing to worship i dont see it as any kind of problem.

Goonter · Post by **Goonter** » Thu Dec 31, 2009 3:30 am

I had an idea at one point to start a "House of Healing" which, in my mind, would be just as it sounds with a very religious feel to it, but then again, it could always be viewed as a hospital.

Aurora · Post by **Aurora** » Thu Dec 31, 2009 9:22 am

I know personally since in real life I don't like people's religious beliefs shoved on me in the real world I also am not a person who would want to see it in my escape from reality life.

I see it as this, if we start allowing the fake religious concept into the game, then other things will fall under scrutiny because the wording of such will offend someone. If you all think I'm off base on this statement, it's actually happened once before so I completely understand Chris's statement.