dragging the unwilling

dier_cire · Post by **dier_cire** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:33 am

celegar wrote:i heard a story from another larp guy that knew a guy that used to backpeddle with somone chasing him then suddenly stop and lean way forward, thus being able to hit the other person but calling charging on them if they got close enough to hit him. thats called a dick move, dont do dick moves, and definitely dont try to think up dick moves.

yup, don't be a dick. If you drop your shoulder, you are being a dick and furthermore deliberately trying to hurt someone, both of which are bad form. It's not your job as a PC to solve rules violations, especially with physical violence.

Post by **GM_Chris** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:34 am

We should have a wwf larp

dier_cire · Post by **dier_cire** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:35 am

GM_Chris wrote:We should have a wwf larp

That's WWE now, Chris. Keep up on the times.

Jaycen Blackhawk · Post by **Jaycen Blackhawk** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:58 am

Okay, so I'm supposed to stand there, let someone slam into me, swing for damage, bounce off me, and then run off?

Not going to happen. I don't break the rules. Nobody else should. Plain and simple.

Anyone who says it's a dick move to protect yourself is full of it.

Taking advantage of the charging rules is not cheating it's tactical.

So say the only way to enter a room is for an NPC to step on a box set in a doorway the step down from the box into the room.

To stop NPC's from getting into the room I step up close to the box so that no one can get down of the box into the room. If an NPC did they would be charging me. So am I wrong for taking a tactical advantage?

The rule system of FH has a skill that lets you move people out of the way, it lets you break a formation, it lets you clear a doorway. It's called PRESS. Hence there is no reason for someone to come running at a group of people, leap into their midst and swing for damage.

Such actions, according to the rules is illegal. If I assume that everyone plays fair and doesn't cheat then my only assumption is that said person is trying to assault me. By dropping my shoulder (I want to clarify that when I say dropping my shoulder I don't mean as a hockey player would, I simply mean bracing for the impact) and setting my feet I am preventing myself from being hurt.

I don't believe in violence, far from it, but I also don't believe in letting people run all over me because they think they are cool.

General Maximus · Post by **General Maximus** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:43 pm

If the attacker is leading with their weapon/s and you stand your ground and they phyicaly hit you with their body they are charging. It is up to the attacker to fight safely and running full tilt into a bunch of people standing around is just stupid and danergous. The key thing to rember on both sides is you want to have a weapon between you both and keep a couple feet or so apart. This help prevent people colliding when they side step or do some defensive manuvers.

It not perfect, but as long as people try to fight safely, it will be all good.

Post by **GM_Chris** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:44 pm

I think I need to say that after reading everyone's comments no one is really arguing or saying anything different than anyone else.

It is of cource tactical to stand in a doorway.

It is ofcourse correct that if you are surrounded, and do not have press then you are fodder and pushing through it technically not allowed.

There are a lot of technically not allowed things that we are pretty lax on.

dier_cire · Post by **dier_cire** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:33 pm

There is a difference between:

Jaycen Blackhawk wrote:My plan next time this happens is to simple use my size to put said charger on the ground, hard.

and

Jaycen Blackhawk wrote:By dropping my shoulder (I want to clarify that when I say dropping my shoulder I don't mean as a hockey player would, I simply mean bracing for the impact) and setting my feet I am preventing myself from being hurt.

If someone comes out looking to hurt someone, then I suggest they not come. If the NPCs or PCs are charging or otherwise breaking the rules, let someone know. It'll get handled. If you take it upon yourself, then you are equally guilty. I'll say it again, PCs aren't there to enforce the rules. They are there to play by them.

For note, holding your ground is fine. Putting your shoulder into them is not. I know the difference and have done both.

Post by **GM_Chris** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:05 pm

I read this:

My plan next time this happens is to simple use my size to put said charger on the ground, hard.

Next time I get charged I am not going to just step asside. Instead I will stand in the way of the attacker and the result is he/she will end up on the ground because I am large and strong and the charger is small.

You read it as:
Next time someone charges me I am going to be an ass and knock them down. That will show em.

And everytime he speaks you say "Dont be aa Dick" Then he thinks that he is in the wrong from trying to stand his ground and not stepping asside and thinks that is stupid.

The reality is he should stand tall and, he should brace for impact, and the person will most likely be put to the ground.

The reality is we all get fired up and excitted during combat and at times the attacker or defender gets a bit unsafe but our players kick butt which is why we have only had the most mild on injuries over a 12 year time spand.

Jaycen Blackhawk · Post by **Jaycen Blackhawk** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:41 pm

Exactly...

I'll never go out of my way to hurt someone. But if someone is dumb enough to throw themselves at me I'm not going to risk one of my knees going out or getting tossed about. I simply mean to not be hurt.

In KANAR they have a 'grappling with permission' non-rule. Many times when I was an NPC people would ask for permission to grapple (often times in mid leap) because I'm 6'5" and 300+ pounds, thinking they want to play wrestling the big monster.

I ususally have no problem with saying yes because fake fist fighting is something we all did as kids. The problem was they would jump on my back and usually try a chokehold or other dumb thing.

Well I used to just sort of lumber around and spin and have fun, but I realized that some people weren't trying to play so much as 'beat the big guy'.

One time someone jumped on my back and then asked if it was okay. I said go ahead and then started by normal lumbering, while I grabbed his legs like I was giving him a ride on my back. I then simply leaned back and left my feet, landing all my weight right on top of him as we fell to the ground.

He let go, couldn't breath and may have fractured a rib or two. He also never tried grappling without asking again. Sometimes people need to learn a lesson the hard way.

celegar · Post by **celegar** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:41 pm

and really, ya shouldnt have to brace for impact against somone unless at the last moment they trip and fall into you. most charging instances are people moving around other people and getting way to close, but there isnt any tackling or rushing going on.

Rhul · Post by **Rhul** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:42 pm

Mainly the only time charging has been a problem (and it would have been me, so I nod to the NPC's that let me do it), was when I was backed into the inn's kitchen by several NPC's playing zombies. I could never have fought all of them, and didn't have press, so by the letter of the rule, I was screwed automatically and only had the option of going down fighting. I could have jumped over the counter, but hell, that's even more dangerous than charging.

But:

I have always figured charging was the act of trying to make someone move by physically interacting with them, or getting into a situation where injuries to be involved (running into a pile of "injured" people, where it would be easy to step on arms/fingers).

I am usually pretty hard on myself when rules are involved, but I figured that turning sideways to slide through the gap between the NPC's and the counter (whereupon I never physically touched anyone, but was still within the zone of their arms reach) was acceptable, especially as I took the swing one of them hit me with as I did so.

As for getting in someone's way, if I am guarding injured people (or people solving a puzzle on the ground, as is common) and I see someone coming at the group (or backpedalling a bit too fast), I fully intend to get in their way. I do it all the time. If they run into me instead of stepping on people, I'll accept that. It's something that's a common and easy thing for anyone to do in the heat of battle (especially NPC's, they have alot of things to occupy their attention, especially in dark battles), and I'm doing it for safety, not to gain anything.

I personally figure the charging rule is so lenient because I don't often see many instances of "aggressive" charging, only alot of 'getting each others way'. But sometimes, if the NPC's are suppost to be guarding an obvious chokepoint (like a doorway), they should be more strict, because I see too many inastances where players push past them in a panic.

dier_cire · Post by **dier_cire** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:47 pm

Either way, I know 99% of the time it's all bravado anyway, but even then, it's still not cool. If you think your action might hurt someone, don't do it. This includes bracing for impact. It's ok and legal but not really the best choice.

I probably won't ever play Serenity as I was told to be expected to get shot "In the face... at point blank range", which while quite possibly less than sincere, I don't think is something I want to even consider.

Post by **GM_Chris** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:52 pm

It is good that no one in our game goes out of their way to hurt someone.

Eric you did blooddy me one time didnt you? A shield to the nose or something

Rhul · Post by **Rhul** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 3:03 pm

I probably won't ever play Serenity as I was told to be expected to get shot "In the face... at point blank range", which while quite possibly less than sincere, I don't think is something I want to even consider.

Unless we get an unforutunate influx of severaly immature types, the only time you would likely ever get shot in the face at Serenity is a unlucky graze from across the clearing, or as part of a badly aimed(or dodged) auto spray. The same as unlucky arrow shots or swung swords in FH.

I think if the first event was an indication, everyone was extremely adult in handling the live fire zones. I know I for one aimed low intentionally if I was pretty close.

Atrum Draconus · Post by **Atrum Draconus** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 3:05 pm

I believe in that Serenity discussion we were talking about people being stupid and shooting at people's heads. And yes I agree with Stark, I'm not gonna break an ankle OR take shots to the face because someone else is being stupid. I ALWAYS have tried to get out of the way of people charging and fighting stupidly. I have always tried to bring it to their attention. I may be the only PC to ever call a game stop in a huge battle because 1 NPC was fighting in just about the most unsafe manner you can. Bending at the waist so they could get at people's lower legs and trying to walk through about 20 people.