Alright, so you've proven the Battle Empath.
Now, what about Healers and Sages?
Suggestion (Warriors)
Moderator: Admin
What do you want for them? More or less to be heavy in soak, you'll follow the same logic but with more armor. Now if you are looking to be a mix of offense and defense, you should consider grabbing a 4th level weapon mastery. This way you can swing 2 all day, use all your skills and have decent soak as you can have heavier armor and sage can use mimic for combat reflexes I believe.
I think healer can easily muster 20+ and have a weapon mastery. Sage, with no armor restrictions can easily manage 25.
I think healer can easily muster 20+ and have a weapon mastery. Sage, with no armor restrictions can easily manage 25.
My posts in no way reflect that of anyone else nor are they in any way official.
Yepo as I stated earlier the sage has alot of differnt ways they can go because their skill set allows them to augment and compliment any discipline choice you choose.
With a sage you can have a good soak, swing 2, resist fear, have taunt, knockout, AND healing.
With a sage you can have a good soak, swing 2, resist fear, have taunt, knockout, AND healing.
Chris
I be one of the gamemasters so e-mail me questions if you have them
I be one of the gamemasters so e-mail me questions if you have them
LOL
I realy think people have symantec issues.
Basically, and I cannot be more clear on this, every combination has combat viability. No combination is so severly squishy they are unable to impact a combat situation.
As we have demonstrated countles times is a few newbs with 5 soak each swininging 1 can take down a 40th level warrior played by Reid
I realy think people have symantec issues.
Basically, and I cannot be more clear on this, every combination has combat viability. No combination is so severly squishy they are unable to impact a combat situation.
As we have demonstrated countles times is a few newbs with 5 soak each swininging 1 can take down a 40th level warrior played by Reid
Chris
I be one of the gamemasters so e-mail me questions if you have them
I be one of the gamemasters so e-mail me questions if you have them
So, everyone in the game should be savage barbarian brawler with a few warrior skills just to survive? I know I asked for the way to do it, but it pointedly shows that in order to get most non warrior characters above 12-15 soak you have to build your character specifically for maximizing soak. Shouldn't the fact that you have to have 3 levels of warrior, be savage, a 2 life race and get a sage buff which relies on you having combat reflexes as a skill already say something? Not to mention that means at about 40 players the sages IG have spent 400 minutes buffing people or 20 minutes shy of 7 hours.
Death=Adder
One of these days...I'm going to cut you into little pieces...
~Pink Floyd~
One of these days...I'm going to cut you into little pieces...
~Pink Floyd~
No No..as I just said everyone is not that squishy. Even if you take a build that is as minimal as possible you can still deal out 1 damage, and have a shield.
Now all skill being equal you will loose to a person with more soak and more damage, but you can increase odds by teaming up with 1 person as squishy as you. Now you have 2 people and 2 shields each swinging 1. You will have double soak and all things being equal you will take out a warrior.
I consider that HIGHLY vauable in combat. Infact it is probably as equal as it gets minus reinactment systems that utilaize kings rules.
What I tend to see though is a person thinking they have no value in a combat situation and thus do not participate. I can see it on a RP level, but if it is on a mechanic level then that person would be underestimating what they bring to combat.
Now all skill being equal you will loose to a person with more soak and more damage, but you can increase odds by teaming up with 1 person as squishy as you. Now you have 2 people and 2 shields each swinging 1. You will have double soak and all things being equal you will take out a warrior.
I consider that HIGHLY vauable in combat. Infact it is probably as equal as it gets minus reinactment systems that utilaize kings rules.
What I tend to see though is a person thinking they have no value in a combat situation and thus do not participate. I can see it on a RP level, but if it is on a mechanic level then that person would be underestimating what they bring to combat.
Chris
I be one of the gamemasters so e-mail me questions if you have them
I be one of the gamemasters so e-mail me questions if you have them
as Chris stated, we proved a ful combat empath. But the empath's greatest boon isn't his soak. Honestly, he only needs maybe 10 or so and is fine. 10 soak with a shield swinging 1 is very useful in combat. To top that off he can throw booms (which is by far his greatest asset).
If someone wants to be an uber soak empath, they can but honestly it's overkill. If you don't like shields and/or high soak, then stay out of the front line. Everyone can participate in combat, but you have know your role. When combat break into mass melee (and normally they tend to) 10 soak will get beaten down alot. If you stick together and people do their jobs then the 10 soak will be more than enough.
I still recall the first or second event where Chris had a group of us NPC. The PCs damage and soak were about the same as they are now. I think I was the one warrior and everyone else was the standard 10 soak 1 damage. The PCs about died because we formed a line and soaked up a lot of damage while getting our attacks through our shield wall.
If someone wants to be an uber soak empath, they can but honestly it's overkill. If you don't like shields and/or high soak, then stay out of the front line. Everyone can participate in combat, but you have know your role. When combat break into mass melee (and normally they tend to) 10 soak will get beaten down alot. If you stick together and people do their jobs then the 10 soak will be more than enough.
I still recall the first or second event where Chris had a group of us NPC. The PCs damage and soak were about the same as they are now. I think I was the one warrior and everyone else was the standard 10 soak 1 damage. The PCs about died because we formed a line and soaked up a lot of damage while getting our attacks through our shield wall.
My posts in no way reflect that of anyone else nor are they in any way official.
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Lambic
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$0.02
Having played a character not aimed directly at combat but who does not shy away from it, let me add my thoughts. Lambic, has not until very recently crossed the 20 soak line (and yes I think this is an important line). I get dropped alot, that is just the way it is. I am not the best fighter (me personally, not Lambic). Sword and Board is a big factor in how long I stay up and if I can get 1 or 2 others to form a line with me then, yeah, we hold even longer. Mind you I am a warrior, basic lvl. I swing 1.
As for fighting and creature that has more than 10 soak, it seems like I am fighting something that will not drop, especially if they are swinging more than 1. That is just how it is. I understand that there needs to be tougher monsters to challenge large groups of PCs or Warriors, but PCs like me will always be the ones who fall first, again this is just how it is.
An interesting thought occured to me, because I am not a combat oriented character, I do not go on a majority of the combat runs/plots. Thus it is likely that I will miss more of the plots/combat instances that have the lower powered NPCs. I mostly end up fighting whatever attacks the town. Those tend towards the end of world type fights.
Having played a character not aimed directly at combat but who does not shy away from it, let me add my thoughts. Lambic, has not until very recently crossed the 20 soak line (and yes I think this is an important line). I get dropped alot, that is just the way it is. I am not the best fighter (me personally, not Lambic). Sword and Board is a big factor in how long I stay up and if I can get 1 or 2 others to form a line with me then, yeah, we hold even longer. Mind you I am a warrior, basic lvl. I swing 1.
As for fighting and creature that has more than 10 soak, it seems like I am fighting something that will not drop, especially if they are swinging more than 1. That is just how it is. I understand that there needs to be tougher monsters to challenge large groups of PCs or Warriors, but PCs like me will always be the ones who fall first, again this is just how it is.
An interesting thought occured to me, because I am not a combat oriented character, I do not go on a majority of the combat runs/plots. Thus it is likely that I will miss more of the plots/combat instances that have the lower powered NPCs. I mostly end up fighting whatever attacks the town. Those tend towards the end of world type fights.
I don't go on some of the combat runs... for the second word... sometimes the pc's end up running... yikes! I've been victim of the pirate code more than once and only survived by hurling myself into dense trees, where people smarter than I don't go, so they can avoid pain...
I've gone between empath eli, and warrior Donmayo since the first FH events and I always feel useful. The problem is there are far less warriors than there use to be IMO. Back when there were TONS and only like 2 or 3 full empaths running around, I was on top of the world... but I think there might be as many empaths as warriors now, makes you much more squishy when you don't have your two warrior escort. But I always feel useful and needed.
I've gone between empath eli, and warrior Donmayo since the first FH events and I always feel useful. The problem is there are far less warriors than there use to be IMO. Back when there were TONS and only like 2 or 3 full empaths running around, I was on top of the world... but I think there might be as many empaths as warriors now, makes you much more squishy when you don't have your two warrior escort. But I always feel useful and needed.
-Eli (Full Elvish: Elaith Vonaduran Craulnober)
There once was a man named Eli,
A man who claimed he could not die.
But one thing makes him wail:
That's when there is no ALE!
Thus his tale: with no beer, he will cry.
(The dark haired, green eyed mage child has faded into the past leaving behind one not quite an adult, but clearly no longer a child. The warrior-mage mixture that he has become can only be described as a survivor. )
There once was a man named Eli,
A man who claimed he could not die.
But one thing makes him wail:
That's when there is no ALE!
Thus his tale: with no beer, he will cry.
(The dark haired, green eyed mage child has faded into the past leaving behind one not quite an adult, but clearly no longer a child. The warrior-mage mixture that he has become can only be described as a survivor. )
They are. Just not in front line combat.
What skills do you have that usable in combat? If none, then toe to toe with an NPC is a bad thing.
It's like when I played CARPS as Jorj. If I got hit more than two or three times I would drop. But that was cause I had no levels in toughness, no armor, one resist effect, and no parries. (all except resist effect are warrior skills)
What skills do you have that usable in combat? If none, then toe to toe with an NPC is a bad thing.
It's like when I played CARPS as Jorj. If I got hit more than two or three times I would drop. But that was cause I had no levels in toughness, no armor, one resist effect, and no parries. (all except resist effect are warrior skills)
My posts in no way reflect that of anyone else nor are they in any way official.
I am really not understanding the comment about making everyone feel usefull in combat. Where in the discussion do we make it sound warrior is nessissary.
Talk with anyone in Corbayn's crew about combat effectivness.
What I have been trying to say is EVERY single character type from the most maxed out warrior to the minimalist non warrior can be combat effective.
Also no full fledge warrior can stand up in a fight by themselves. FH is not a single hero game where you go out and and be a hero by yourself. It was never designed that way. Final Haven is all about group dynamics and group combat. You MUST be in a group to be effecive no matter what class combo you choose. This is by design.
I have been trying to not compare other games, but I want to further discuss the making everyone feel useful. Could you point some games out to me that make every combo combat effective. I have only played CARPS, and I could make a 1000 point squishy pretty easily by picking all skills that have nearly no efect in combat. I would assume most games are the same way.
One thing nice about FH is the degreee of squishyness between the max's and min's is not all that great. I will admit there is a perception issue that dissagrees witht that statement. I think that stems from people with a single person vs group mentality
Talk with anyone in Corbayn's crew about combat effectivness.
What I have been trying to say is EVERY single character type from the most maxed out warrior to the minimalist non warrior can be combat effective.
Also no full fledge warrior can stand up in a fight by themselves. FH is not a single hero game where you go out and and be a hero by yourself. It was never designed that way. Final Haven is all about group dynamics and group combat. You MUST be in a group to be effecive no matter what class combo you choose. This is by design.
I have been trying to not compare other games, but I want to further discuss the making everyone feel useful. Could you point some games out to me that make every combo combat effective. I have only played CARPS, and I could make a 1000 point squishy pretty easily by picking all skills that have nearly no efect in combat. I would assume most games are the same way.
One thing nice about FH is the degreee of squishyness between the max's and min's is not all that great. I will admit there is a perception issue that dissagrees witht that statement. I think that stems from people with a single person vs group mentality
Chris
I be one of the gamemasters so e-mail me questions if you have them
I be one of the gamemasters so e-mail me questions if you have them
I've never played a character where I felt more useful than I did with Dallid (Healer/Druid) - who had absolutely 0 damage or soak bonuses and no armor, though his shield helped keep his 7 LP from getting tapped too much.
And I've felt very effective in combat as Amagus (Empath/Arcane) - just have to be careful to stay behind a shield wall.
And I've felt very effective in combat as Amagus (Empath/Arcane) - just have to be careful to stay behind a shield wall.
Death is the threshold to immense possibility