Suggestion (Warriors)

dier_cire · Post by **dier_cire** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 5:16 pm

GM_Chris wrote:it sounds like you are asking NPC's to abide by the rules

more or less, yeah.

I'm not trying to be an ass on that point. I just don't want anyone getting hurt. If it happens enough people get frustrated and "accidents" happen then. It wouldn't take long for someone to get frustrated and stand their ground and the other person would get knocked on their ass. When it happened last event, we were well enough organized to be able to handle it, but that won't always be the case.

Post by **GM-Mike** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 6:04 pm

Sorry, I thought you meant that there were monsters that could not be killed by any means. You're right of course, we have had plots like the ones you have described. The problem with the everything can die if hit enough times philosophy is that every plot would be solved in that matter and our NPC's would wonder what's the point because I just go in and get outnumbered 50-1 and then I die. I don't think anyone permanently died on the plots you mentioned and of course we don't run them often. I see your point; I'm just not sure I fully agree with it.

The swing 2 after not doing anything with 1 does sound cheesy. I'm sure that was a cranky npc who did that.

Post by **GM_Chris** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 9:18 pm

OR the NPC had rage or a charged skill that allows them to charge up and then swing more. We work alot of our monsters that way

Doctor Erasmus · Post by **Doctor Erasmus** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 9:48 pm

As an NPC I've also been told to beef things up as the PC's become more organized. Example, Saturday night we go to attack the PC's. I ask, "Are we going in as X?" "Yes, but with more life and swing for 2 now." Ok I reply, and off we go.

Why should the PC's be the only ones that learn form their mistakes and get nifty tricks up their sleeves? Mindless creatures may continue to attack with the same tactics even if getting slaughtered... but a half intelligent NPC should be able to say, "Well... they keep using Nth ability on us... what can we do about that?" and change things up a little. Or maybe call in reinforcements. Or maybe the weak toadies sent to kill the PC's failed so now the henchmen are sent. I can see numerous IG concepts explaining more powerful creatures as opposing to simply writing it off as a pissy OOG NPC's (which I'm sure also happens btw).

Post by **GM_Chris** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 10:57 pm

Well yeah we will continually try and adjust things to present a challenge to the PC's. Our goal is not to kill, but to challenge. Will that mean some of ou may loose a character? Well yeah..but that is ok

We have, as of recently, had a changing of the guard in alot of respect. This has brought some awsome RP amoung other things.

Sorry if off topic, but this entire thread seems a bit off topic hehe.

General Maximus · Post by **General Maximus** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:34 am

I have to agree with eric on this post. People pushing past shields/people, not following charging rule, etc.. is becomeing dangerous and someone will get hurt.

I don't think it is about skills, but following the charge rules. A warrior if they are willing to stand there and take the damage should not allow a monster in to attack the empath. This means a monster should not run into a shield wall. Peoples intinct to to move back to nobody gets hurt. A monster/pc should stop at a shield wall or a person blocking there path (not running at them) and fight, or use press to move them out of the way. That why there is the press skill. I pesonal will statrt callingmore people on charging becasue it will lead to people getting hurt.

As for being squish, thats all on your build. One can make a combat empath that can take 15-22 damage easly. A warrior can take 25-30. Another path designed for battle can take 15-24. Not that much difference than a warrior. It's all in the build and what you want to do.

Peace420 · Post by **Peace420** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:39 am

Show me the build for an empath taking 22 damage please, remembering if they have more than 7 armor they can't use any empath skills.

I have defintely seen the # of monsters that can swing 2 increase abit over the years, but from what I remember alot of the times the NPC's are just full path warriors that very rarely if ever use their own defensive matrix or parry opting for doing as much damage as possible before thier inevitable deaths.

I really have no problem with special damage only NPC's from time to time as long as the NPC's give us a chance to get whats needed and don't make it extremely hard and time consuming, which hasn't happened yet to my knowledge(The bugs I was the only alchemist in town and luckily I was the one that found the box cause if GOL would have it never would have been shared anyway

and the GM's let me brew an buttload of that poison in a few hours, I still have some of that stuff stowed away.) The problem in all those scenarios that were described was lack of organiation, basically PC's that couldn't or wouldn't follow the plans laid out and PC's that kept attacking even when they saw it was doing nothing except making those things attack more. Especially since there are a few ways for PC's to do much the same thing if not exactly the same thing.

The charging NPC's is definitely a problem at times, as well as charging PC's, but I definitely see it more on the NPC side as they try and push past the warriors to get at the weaker classes, or target one person and chase them around the field *cough* Chris *cough*

.

Basically if the charging is called out more often by the PC's when it happens and the PC's actually stick to the plans and tactics that are discussed beforehand then the battles usually work out much much better. In this game it's nearly impossible to be the solo hero, so stop trying.

Post by **GM_Chris** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:50 am

Hey I always charge and chase in character

General Maximus · Post by **General Maximus** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 11:16 am

Battel Emapth Emapth

Savage: 3
Race: 2
Costume: 2
3 Level of warrior: 3
Quality Armor: 7
Level 20: 1
Level 40: 1
Sage Buff: 2
Total is 21 points.
Than any magic items etc.. could put you past 21 easly!

dier_cire · Post by **dier_cire** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 11:56 am

An alternate would be to go savage Empath / Brawler 3 / Level 2 Barb / 3 warrior skills. (can be complete by level 13)

savage: 3 life
race: 2 life
costume: 2 life
warrior: 2 combat reflexes
warrior: 1 life
brawler: 3 combat reflexes
quality armor: 7 armor
sage buff: 2 combat reflexes

Grand total: 8 life, 7 combat reflexes, and 7 armor: 22 life and armor

*edited to add lower level brawler...*

*hehe, I think goku on this one*

Peace420 · Post by **Peace420** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:05 pm

Sorry meant 4 armor, I was thinking med not lt, 40 is 10 events or just about 2 years in, I always forget costume. But I was thinking about 15 without magic items and buffs was just about the max even after a couple years. Even still you have to be savage and you have to pick a 2 life race to even get close to 20 at all including buffs and some other character making you armor.

dier_cire · Post by **dier_cire** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:10 pm

there's only one buff, and quality armor isn't hard to get really. You just have to be willing to pay for it. Within a year, you can make enough to pay for it.

Plus, my modified charater can have it by the one year mark. (He can be within 1 life or 2 combat reflexes much sooner than that)

General Maximus · Post by **General Maximus** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:46 pm

Ok, Let compare a 2oth battle empath and a knight warrior

Battle Empath - Empath/barbrin/3 levels in warrior skills
savage: 3 life
race: 2 life
costume: 2 life
warrior: 2 combat reflexes
warrior: 1 life
Barbarin: 2 combat reflexes
Light armor: 4 armor
sage buff: 2 combat reflexes
20th level: 1

Total: 19

Warrior Knight - Warrior/Knight
Privledge: 1 life
race: 2 life
costume: 2 life
warrior: 6 combat reflexes
warrior: 3 life
Knight: 3 combat reflexes
Knight: 1 life
Heavy armor: 10 armor
sage buff: 2 combat reflexes
20th level: 1

Total: 31

A difference of 12 hits. One can swing 2 damage, the other can throw 30 magic. Both lethal in battle. Just in different ways. Empath are no squish if built propperly. You can build a warrior with a non warrior disapline and you get the following

Warrior - Warrior/Beucrate
Privledge: 1 life
race: 1 life
costume: 2 life
warrior: 6 combat reflexes
warrior: 3 life
Heavy armor: 10 armor
sage buff: 2 combat reflexes
20th level: 1

Total: 26

A battle empath can easly take out this type of warrior. 30 boom, sleep, fear, etc.. It's all in the build

Post by **GM_Chris** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:50 pm

Well actually I am going to guess it will be harder to fund quality items since we capped things like steel and hide.

We will see how it goes.

Oh and the point is you can make a combat empath. The combat empath has near equal soak, but does not have the damage mitigtion of a warrior. Basically, if an empath is hit for 5 crush or more there is no parry choice.

Also, you cannot def/matrix to mitigate 1 or 2 damage attacks to last longer.

You do gain the ability to lob packets as long as you are not enguaged in melee.

dier_cire · Post by **dier_cire** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:07 pm

Obviously the emapth doesn't have the higher level warrior skills but I'd say the 30 boom/fear/sleep is a good replacment.

An empath should never really be in a front line combat situation, but with a 20+ soak build he can take a few hits if he ends up in a bad situation. Heck, drop 3 soak and he can use a shield (we do still have light weight quality right?)...

Suggestion (Warriors)

Empath

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