Suggestion (Warriors)

[Lao]

Take away defensive matrix.

Give warriors Taunt.

Reasoning:
Warriors can take a good amount of damage, Nobody else can. Monsters usually swing 2 now and the abysmal cave last event showed me why, defensive matrix. If you remove defensive matrix not only will monsters be able to scale back a little thus making them something non-warriors can enjoy fighting again but it also means warriors are no longer immune to things (anything swinging just 1, the warrior is immune to.)

Now In my probably skewed perception of things here is how I see the paths breaking down in very simplistic terms (For combat only).

Warrior = The tank, they take the damage and protect the physically weaker paths.
Rogue = The melee damage dealer, can take a little damage in toe to toe but deals large dmg from behind.
Healer = Maybe a backup warrior, but mostly just a healer
Empath = The Ranged damage dealer. Very squishy in melee but delivers huge damage given time and range.
Sage = Umm...do they really have a role in combat? (Maybe fill in a gap)

How I see things currently working in game:
Warrior = I take lots of damage, I deal lots of damage, Just gimme a healer and I will kill anything.
Rogue = dammit...I just backstabbed for 12 and its still alive and in the time it takes me to charge my backstab, the warriors have already done 12pts to it from the front and they can take more dmg then me.
Healer = Im cool as shit when someone gets hurt!
Empath = BOOM, BOOM, BOOM!! (need I say more?)
Sage= Uh...so like um...go for the jugular! (warrior responds: Whats dat? Me just smish it!)

If you really have an interest in making the warrior more of a damage taking/protector type character (again, my viewpoint) giving them a taunt skill allows them to actually protect the other members who are squishy. This is something that nobody can really do in the current game mechanics.

Example: Empath is charging a boom, it obvious to the intelligent monster...so the monster charges around the warrior sacrificing a couple of hits for 2 and very quickly kills the empath (who probably has 6-8 soak and monster probably swings 2's). Monster turns back to warrior, fight continues minus 1 empath.
Conversation afterwards:
Warrior: Sowwy
Empath: Dude, you suck. What kind of frickin warrior are you? your supposed to PROTECT me?
Warrior: How me do dat, me savage so me cant taunt, an game not let me tackle stupid monster?
Empath: Ummm...well you could...umm...kill it faster!
Warrior: me was hittin hard as me could, but monsters seems like take 50-60 sword blows ta kill dez days an me only swingin like 2-3 sword blows per swing...so dat like 20 sword blows me gots swing afore monster die. You just needs get tougher...you to squishy!
Empath: Screw you dude! (BOOM)
Warrior: Owie, dat sting a little...now me made. HULK SMASH! 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2,
Empath (OOC now): Dude...I was dead after the 2nd 2...
NPC Monster 1: Sorry for swinging 2's the whole time, but if I didnt then I couldnt hurt him (points at warrior) cause he would just defensive matrix and wait for someone else to kill me.

Yes this is an exaggerated example, and yes you can do things to stop the monster (Like press...oh wait..warriors dont have that either, maybe with a bunch of shields you can surround the empath, but then you need like 2-3 shield using warriors for each squishy).

Mostly Im just bored and decided I would toss this up, since it is a place for rules suggestion and I think this would change the game dynamics in a very positive way by giving a little more definition to path roles in a combat situation (maybe thats not wanted, but to me it seems like it can only help).

Evan

[Amagus]

I’ve always thought Defensive Matrix was a bit off for the reasons Evan has pointed out. Also, as I was putting together a warrior character for Winter Haven, I was surprised to find Taunt wasn’t a Path skill – it seems integral to any fighter-protector kind of character. So I really like this suggestion.

‘Course, this would change the game dynamic – namely that the warriors pretty much MUST be overcome before any support characters can be attacked, unless the attackers are sneaky enough (or numerous enough) to get some of their own passed the warriors without entering Taunt range. But this seems a very good dynamic to me, and would better simulate mass combat conditions and the difficulty of bypassing the fighting line.

Of course, I’m also heavily biased. As a squishy character, anything that makes it harder for me to be attacked is a source of happiness. Plus, selfish or lone-wolf warriors would certainly get more use out of Defensive Matrix than Taunt.

[GM_Chris]

Taunt is a fisrt level discipline skill that anyone pretty much anyone can get.

If we gave taunt to the warrior then we would most likly remove it as a dscipline.

Also I think you have the warrior roll scewed. I never aw the warrior as a damage dealer nor do I think they are the best at dealing damage. I was talking to another player and asked them which was the most powerful path in game and he said it was the empath with or without a warrior.



Oh and a thief will most likely have less soak than a healer.


Sages kinda have the ability to do a little of everything. Forexample I could play a sage with 4 less soak than some warrior builds with bonus back stabs, healing ability, press, and taunt

[cole45]

Taunt is only found in swashbuckler. that's common only.

[Faerykin]

So anyone of Common Class can pick up Taunt.

Warriors will still have Defensive Matrix so that all monsters/NPCs will swing at least 2 - all the time, and anyone not of "Warrior" skill/background will still be super-squishy.

Just making sure I'm clear on this.

[dier_cire]

Um, warriors can't deal any damage while using defensive matrix (not to mention it's only useful in one direction)... How does this make them be able to deal more than anyone else? Heck last event I don't think I killed but maybe one or two monsters. I mostly sat around and took it while the empaths and specialized disciplines did all the damage. And I heard correctly, most of the damage done during the sat night battle was done by empaths. The warriors just held the line.

Now if you think the warrior is overpowered I suggest you take a serious look at Nelkie's character. He's a front line empath character. Hell, his last character was a sage and could continuously swing for more damage than I could. I don't see how poor skill choice is a reason to change the game.

As for everything swinging 2, I think I must have been at a different event then. I saw more things swinging 1 than I did 2.

As for the example, npc runs around the warrior. Warrior moves, blocking the npc's path. Npc runs into warrior. Warrior calls charging and the npc backs his ass up. the warrior can move sideways alot faster than the npc can move around him (and if this was a cave, there's no way an npc should get around the warrior). Plus, any good warrior has press to further inhibit the npc. Also for note, a good combat empath can have alot more than 6-8 soak (they can easily have 7+hp and 6+ armor). Again, poor skill choice (by both) is not a good reason to change the game. Also, anything with 50 to 60 soak swinging 2 should have a good chance at killing at least one of them even with good builds.

[GM-Mike]

I don't know if people are just going on the wrong plots, but I have to say that monsters swing 1 over 75% of the time. I told my NPC's to swing 2 on only one occasion last event.

[Eli]

Well, speaking as an empath, I have totally seen an npc just keep walking toward a warrior and if the warrior does not get out of the way, they get run over... I realize it is tech charging, but not if the warrior trying to avoid getting hit moves... so I do see where that part of it is coming from.

However, most of the time I npc'd it was swing one, and usualy between 5-15 soak total, more on the 5 side.

But I have been on a plot and seen an npc come running up, I defense matrix and so they walk back ten feet and come in a second time now swinging 2...

Anyway, I see where Evan is coming from, but I don't think it is always that way... just some of the time, and not every monster does that, just a few out of each group of monsters, typically not a NPC, but a GM who makes a judgment call that this monster should have something like rage or something.

[GM_Chris]

I am really confused at the swing 2 thing and taunt. I mean if you got rid of def matrix for taunt aht would make the warrior more squishy.


ALSO, if you gave the warrior taunt then to use taunt the warrior could not be raging thus their damage would be reduced to 1.

So adding taunt and removing def/matrix would make warriors more squishy, reduce their damage, but allow a creature to direct their attacks at the warrior until the next person hit them.

[Eli]

I think the assumption was, that if there were no def mat, then more monsters would swing 1 instead of them swinging 2, meaning other classes or paths would be able to get into the fight more. But the answer to that was, most monsters already swing 1 not 2. But the answer to that was, no they don't... So that is the spot we are in.


I think most monsters swing 1, but then swinging 2 is required sometimes. Why? Well mostly, just like other larps, there are far more PC's than NPC's and so you increase the stats of NPC's to make it at least a partial challenge. Not sure switching to taunt is the answer, but it was a idea. A better idea is more refined rules on charging. I know weapon between has been the rule forever, but it is really ineffective. Especially when, as exampled by Evan above, the monster just keeps walking toward you and then thru you to kill the empaths, and it ignores your attacks. I know that is annoying to say the least.

Not sure taunt in current from fixes that. Maybe something more like Guard from Carps. Like Taunt, but it is different, it lets you "jump" between the monster and the other player and fight, which we cannot do in larp, well we can, but may not... Anyway, it is one of the best things we've done there for rules in a long time. And it really cuts down on what I believe charging really is. Basically forcing people to move out of your way because you for some reason as a sentient creature you do not care that you are going to die in a second, you only care that while ignoring those incoming hits that keep hitting you, you get to that empath charging a boom… So while the pc has to back off because you don’t care if you exchange hits or not, the monster doesn’t, hence you are able to force them back by simply standing there and ignoring that sword that is repeatedly stabbing you in the face… cause that’s real.

I know one thing I don't like is un-killable monsters, I mean if it is un-killable what is it doing playing with losers like us when it would be eating dragon flesh or gods or ... but that is a whole different thread...

[GM-Mike]

????What monsters have been unkillable??????

This whole thread is confusing the crap out of me. Anyway, like I said, most monsters swing 1. The exceptions are the big monsters at the ends of plots, especially if there is only one of them (and then it swing a lot more than one), at which point it would be dumb to swing one and everyone will think the plot sucked...But I bet the monsters leading to the big monster swung one 98% of the time.

[Eli]

????What monsters have been unkillable??????

Sorry but more than once I have fought a monster that was hit for every type of damage in game (that pc’s have normally) hundreds of times and it still kept coming. While I would guess they are not Un-killable, they are nearly impossible requiring a special item to harm them, or something, and that typically takes hours of prep time to acquire or prep, mean while it is rampaging thru town dropping everyone.

Just off my head mind you as there were probably others:

The giant bugs only hurt by a special poison which took 4 hours to brew and only one person had access to it and these things base was like 30 crush!

The beast from a few events back,( I know it was a plot)

Random monster back at Brighton which swung 5 crush for 20 plus minutes before it decided to just walk off, and we never did hurt it...

While I under stand plot driven things, I was simply pointing out I did not like these, some people probably do. But everything should die eventually if hit enough times, maybe a sword only does a minimal amount so instead of it dieing in one hit by poison it dies in 50 hits by magic… I am not asking for a rule change but commenting that these were far more annoying than monsters swinging more damage. I’ll take a monster swinging base 2 every single day over an un-killable one. I typically just walk away if there is NO way I can hurt something and let others who care to deal with this sort of quests deal with them.

Anyway, like I said, most monsters swing 1. The exceptions are the big monsters at the ends of plots, especially if there is only one of them (and then it swing a lot more than one), at which point it would be dumb to swing one and everyone will think the plot sucked...But I bet the monsters leading to the big monster swung one 98% of the time.

This part I agree with for the most part, most swing 1 most of the time, but I have been out numbered and getting killed when suddenly I was like oh yeah I'm a warrior (different character) and done my nifty defensive matrix skill only to stand there until the npc went “how come you're still alive?” and I was like defensive matrix, and them go oh... ok then 2, 2,2,2,2,2 it has happened to me, felt pretty cheesed. But I think that was simple cheese not a situation for a rule change.

[dier_cire]

It sounds thus far that the biggest issue is the "I'm gonna get the empath mentality". Aaron and I actually discussed this after the event long before this post. We both noticed in the caves a few npcs had a tendancy to physically push past us to hit the people behind us. In our situation, we let it go as it had little effect, but in the future I'll be a bit more strict on pointing this out.

Honestly, pushing past in that manner is EXTREMELY unsafe. I'm wearing a real metal helm. It can really hurt if you get headbutted (ala Colin when we were fighting ED). Any shield to the head also hurts and you pressing in and me having my shield between you and me equals you charging and getting hurt (I had a weapon inbetween and you didn't).

[GM_Chris]

Well Taunt would actually make that situation worse while it sounds more llike you are looking at press, but actually it sounds like you are asking NPC's to abide by the rules

Steve I hear you about the unkillable monters. It is kinda like whn you as an NPC enter a situation where you ask youself "why the heck did I bother waking up when there is nothing I can do against the might of the PC's."

[Eli]

yeah, what Chris said....

lol