A question

Post by **GM_Chris** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 3:52 pm

I wouldnt want to increase base damage it isnt intuitive.

Oh and I would not allow a peron to rage whhile duel wielding that would be in the descriptipn.

Peace420 · Post by **Peace420** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:02 pm

Not base damage Chris, a charge up that takes just as long as the pikemans but is for 2 instead of 5.

Post by **GM_Chris** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:04 pm

unless it is a big maul

Charge up time is not intuiitive. But what we can do is make the disciplines that use big items juicer

Eilonwy · Post by **Eilonwy** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 5:00 pm

Putting everyone at the same OOG fighting ability level, I would agree that sword and board is the easiest without experience. Then dual-wielding using it like a long thin shield, followed by polearms (you have reach and inexperienced people may not know how to roll into you), one-handed or staves (staves can be awkward, trust me, if you don't know how to use them), then 2-handed.

Free dual-wielding with restrictions would be cool ( limit on length, rage, etc.) Giving the Swashy people evasion skills, good idea. If not making dual-wielding free, I would make using shields an actual skill, not free.

Post by **Kale** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 5:12 pm

I like where this thread is going. Raising the AC with weapon like a shield does is a great idea. Now, what do we do for a swash buckler?

I say move Taunt to level 2 and make their Level 1 ability the ability to use a 2nd weapon without raising the AC.

Taking this a bit of a step further....what if we were to allow anyone to use thrown weapons (rocks, knives, etc)? They throw for 1. Make Grenadiers something like...

Level 1: Magic Item
You may charge the weapon you are throwing for magic damage by concentrating for 5 seconds before throwing it. A specific target is not needed when charging this skill.
Level 2: Bladed Weapons
You may throw ranged items for vorpal damage.
Level 3: Aim
You may throw ranged items for 2 damage.
Level 4: Critical Strikes
You may throw ranged items for crush damage.

For that matter, can anyone use a bow? If so, I assume they just do 1 right?

Peace420 · Post by **Peace420** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 5:53 pm

Everyone used to be able to throw anything but that changed and yes you can use a bow but I think there is a charge up time and I know you don't get the vorpal.

dier_cire · Post by **dier_cire** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 6:34 pm

Limiting rage on two weapon use seems extreme and I'd be against changing the two weapon stuff if that was a requirement. If it's not limited for sword and shield, then why limit it for dual wield? It doesn't make any sense.

I would be against throwing of items for 1 as well for free. This was removed for a reason. Ranged attacks are too powerful to be free. Ask Taki about the Muskegon practice session I attended if you have any doubts.

As well, the above idea is too powerful as ranged vorpal crush is ridculous. My guess is this wasn't intended, but the way it is read it would be possible.

The only way to do it fairly is to have it work exactly as a shield would. I cannot stress enough that there is no signifigant advantage of a second weapon as far as the amount of damage you can deal.

cole45 · Post by **cole45** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 6:45 pm

I like making dual wielding and shield use the same. They Add to AC, or are Disciplines, or what ever. That would really help. I'd be more inclined to make you pay for shield use rather than getting it free, but that's just me.

I too believe ranged attacks are to powerful to be free.

Post by **Kale** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 7:52 pm

What if the "free ranged attacks" took a count just like the "free bow attack" does? Because it is basically the same thing. You can have a packet bow and I don't see how that would be any different than a bunch of rocks.

Ian_McAllister · Post by **Ian_McAllister** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:18 am

Suggestion for Swashbuckler if dual wield was made world wide, would be simply add something like Combat reflexes or Vigor.

Lambic · Post by **Lambic** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 11:58 am

I would add my 2 cents for making dual wield a free ability w/ the armor increase and changing the swash to be get rid of that at 1st and Taunt at 2nd.

I also agree that throwing rocks is pretty powerful. To be free even with a charge up. I might agree with the ability to do it for 1 LP.

I would also agree that with the general feelings that Sword and Board, then Dual wield, then Spear, and then single weapon not considering individual abilities.

Post by **Kale** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:02 pm

Why is throwing rocks for free any better than a packetbow for free? I guess I don't see the difference if both have a charge up time.

Lambic · Post by **Lambic** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:08 pm

well actually I don't think a packet bow should be free either, but at least you have both hands busy then. (That is the way I have seen it done). The ability to disrupt anyone who is charging (empaths, arcanes, archers, or melee fighters) is pretty powerful.

I've been known to hide behind my shield and do it. Or at least try. And feel like I am doing something and the rain of packects coming at us slows considerablly.

Post by **Kale** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:41 pm

And if you created a packetbow phys-rep that you also used as a weapon (like a sword)? Then you would only sort of have two hands free.

And if someone can shove a player with their hand (I still disagree with this) to disrupt them, well I'd rather have a "rock" thrown at me.

Todd · Post by **Todd** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:19 pm

I would like to add my .02cents

Dual weilding is far supperior to a single weapon for both defense and offense. Dont believe me square of against Colin or Keesler and test it. THEY WILL EAT YOU ALIVE! Now granted they also have a fair amount of skill. The whole reason the 'Lifestyles' were created was to keep anyone from Dual-weilding(common) Crush (Savage) or Extra-damage (privileged). Giving everyone the chance to dual weild is dangerous.

Moving Sheild to a discipline is a safe move, and maybe not a bad one, but it would severely ristrict the ability to expand a character. In a system that I already think is a wee restrictive. i.e. the soft cap. Maybe it need to be pushed back a bit more, or maybe sheild should be added to the 'Starting Equiptment List' ala Read/Write. Maybe both (or all three).