Assassin: Utilize Poison (pg 61)

[Eli]

Here are some clarifications to the Poison write-up

When poisoned the character can no longer activate any charged skills or skills that use a life point until the poison is cured. In addition if the character is using such a skill it is dropped.
[/i]

Ok that’s what I thought. Now lets look at a break of this…

Warrior Path 3
Swashbuckler 4
Assassin Discipline 2

Now I have two or three of these guys:
Charge front line of warriors in mass battle all swinging
2 Vorpal Poison!
In a matter of seconds

Loose:

Defense Matrix
Parry
Rage
And any skill gained from discipline that requires life like:
Shooting an Arrow
Fear/crush
Swing Magic
Resist Magic

Not to mention the 2 vorpal! And that would be their constant call. Where before they could do this by coating a blade, but after one use it was gone. I guess where I see the power/problem is that it is constant poison for damage. So you could feasible poison all the warriors before the assassin dropped. Just seems very powerful.

[WayneO42]

Why would the warrior not use Parry to reduce the "2 Vorpal Poison" to 0 for the cost of a life point?

[Kidwynn]

Or a Swashbuckler just hell disarm the bastard poisoning them. For in theory wouldn't that disrupt the poisoning spree and the assasin would have to reapply the poison?

[Nelkie]

Another counter is just beat down the vorpal assiasin. Every hit on them is crush when they are vorpaling and they still need to hit you.

[Peace420]

It's a charge up skill so unless you have some super special uber skilll set that allows you to do multiple charged and\or lifepoint skills at once there really shouldn't be any vorpal poison unless you are breaking a weapon every time you do it, which would still need the 1 minute count to apply to each new weapon. And there certainly shouldn't be any 5 or 6 vorpal poison from a warrior\pikeman\assasin.

Phil, the answer is no, according to the current rules swing magic is a charged skill and cannot be combined with other charge or life point skills.

So an alchemist poison can only be used in a drink or something like that? Or can you use a potion instead and apply it quicker? Would that still be a charge up skill? Would you still need to be an assasin to wield it? Why no potion needed, I can understand not wanting to make it dependent on something else but thats the way craftsman is, unless they have resources they pretty much just repair armor?

I would think an alchemist could apply a potion to a weapon since they wouldn't poison themsleves and warn whoever was wielding it not to touch the blade at all.

[cole45]

1. Magic Weapon is a LP skill. HOWEVER is has been bandied about that it is a passive skill. That is to say you can use it with other skills. We've never really had a clarification.

2. Assassin coating poison, techinically fills the requirement as a charge up skill. However the wording in the book implies that the weapon lasts for the entirety of combat. This means it departs from the traditional definiation of a charged skill.


what we really is need is an active/passive clarification for both poison use and Magic weapon.

[WayneO42]

This is being discussed in the GM forum right now. Expect a clarification soon.

[Eli]

I think it would be cool if they got to have their first hit be poison or they had to use a potion or they could not combine it with vorpal.

That's my point. Seem like they can use a charge skill and a life point skill at same time and noone else can, except rage, which has its drawbacks.

[dier_cire]

Along the same lines of this whole thing is the fact that while in defensive matrix you cannot use any resist skills. Seems silly that you become more vunerable to things by using a defensive type skill.

As for the Assassin change, seeing that it's a charge up (though it looks like between this and the cool down in rage, we need a new counted action type) it's pretty much a one shot "1 poison" call. Kind of useless to me, unless you are lucky and no one is paying attention.

Now if it was a new type and you could combine it with vorpal and rage, it's still not that great. Warriors still have parry, and fear/2 vorpal is still a better combo (though far more difficult to achieve).

[Peace420]

Lots of things have been bandied about that doesn't mean that they don't follow the current rules, a life point skill is even more clear, you spend a life point you follow the life point rules. Charge up on the other hand has some grey area as some things take time but are not charge up skills, e.g. Alchemy making, Arcane casting, healing.

So people are not misunderstanding this skill, the call for the entire combat would be 1 poison not for 1 swing or until interrupted, this like swing magic would be a special charged skill that does not go away if you are hit like backstab or sleep only because it states that it works differently in the description. Under the current rules there really is no clarification needed unless you're looking for a way to get around what the rules clearly state. Now the GM's may feel that the few charge up skills that work differently than most of the others may need special rules for them but until they do it's still a charge up skill. Most charge up skills also require a pre-determined target, not all do though so do those need special rules too?

[Onimaster]

I think it would be cool if they got to have their first hit be poison or they had to use a potion or they could not combine it with vorpal.

That's my point. Seem like they can use a charge skill and a life point skill at same time and noone else can, except rage, which has its drawbacks.

I disagree. It’s almost the same mechanic as enchant weapon.

Along the same lines of this whole thing is the fact that while in defensive matrix you cannot use any resist skills. Seems silly that you become more vunerable to things by using a defensive type skill.

It's a basic skill, and not meant to be perfect (though it is very very good). Making yourself more resistant to regular damage you have to concentrate leaving you open to other types of attack.

As for the Assassin change, seeing that it's a charge up (though it looks like between this and the cool down in rage, we need a new counted action type) it's pretty much a one shot "1 poison" call. Kind of useless to me, unless you are lucky and no one is paying attention.

Um, no. It states it lasts the entire combat after one application.

Like Wayne said we are talking about it in the GM forums now.

[Lambic]

Under the current rules there really is no clarification needed unless you're looking for a way to get around what the rules clearly state.

I would agree with that except that it is "1 Vorpal Poison" is refered to often. Both in the description (presented here in this thread at least) also in Wayne's discussion. This makes me think about using the Vorpal Skill, although I do know that there is at least one other way to add vorpal to a call. So I don't think it is that far off questioning it.

[dier_cire]

I wasn't saying it was a one shot, just that after the first shot, the novelty of the first hit is off, it's a waste.

As for defensive Matrix, last I checked it wasn't a basic skill. Maybe that's changed... The single life point skill rule is still my issue. Seems like a waste of a rule limiting a single skill (and confusing swing magic).

Now, if you get into a mass melee where you can hit backs, vorpal poison has a use. However, combats haven't been reducing to that in recent times.

Now basically, we have four types of skills. Passive, charge-up, timed, and life point. As I understand it, you may only have one charge-up/timed/life point skill in use at any time, unless otherwise stated in the skill. If swing magic and poison are to have other skills one could use, they need to be either passive once the timed action/life point is expended (noted in the description) or they need the these skills may be used in conjunction with X skills.

Timed skills don't have a major rule tied to their use or their effects post use. Healing is obvious as it just resets things. However, spells and other things are different. Now, just from memory is the fireball type spell done casting once you have the ball in hand? If so, that would be a charge up type effect (as I've yet to see someone holding a boom and a fireball), yet the light spell is considered passive. Same skill (arcane) yet two different results once the spell is cast. Now, we have the same issue with swing magic as it's a life point skill, but yet is considered passive by most. This skill falls into the same boat. We need categories for the skills and if they change categories during or at the end of their use, that in the description.

[Peace420]

I'm not sure Eric but I think we're saying the same thing, follow the rules in the book unless the description says differently. What people consider a skill isn't whats in question really, I'd like to consider sleep a passive skill once it's charged but it's not, I can't use any other skills or lose my sleep skill. The only reason that swing magic is may be considered by people a passive skill once the life is spent because there was a question asked and someone was told it would be looked at. It will be looked at in no way means that consider it differently until then. I think there in lies alot of peoples confusion, instead of assuming that a rule follows the rules in the book they assume that there isn't a clear rule for it. Which is the wrong mentality, there is a rule in place to be followed until if and when that rule has been discussed and possibly altered by the GM's.

Arcane ans alchemy are very different but the spells will have that in the description whether they are treated like a passive or charge up skill. It may not say that but it will say whether or not you will lose it by being hit. Light my guess will ALWAYS be passive no matter what because of safety.

[cole45]

Timed skills don't show up in the rule book. Under a strict reading, healing is a charge up skill because you have a time and a target. it is precisely this that we need clarified, along with magic weapon's usage.