Disagreements

[Skal Tathar]

I'll be the the first to admit that I was pretty sour at how my character died and it almost spoiled the whole event for me. It took Ravanal talking to me for me to get it into perspective, and even that took me awhile. I must admit I didn't like how the Gryffin guild was basically abused by both the GM's and the plot. Our guild was devastated and only one member remains alive after this event besides Robin, who was turned to the dark side, and Gin whos behavior led to him fleeing for his life with the disrespect of all of Haven. I felt that with the way the plot was going that the remaining Gryffins were under suspicion and there were people talking about the possiblity of the rest of the Gryffins as either possible traitors and waiting for the right moment to strike or deserting Haven to join with Robin.
This could not be further from the truth as I hope we demonstrated. I myself died after trying to talk to Robin to see if she was under a spell or just brain washed ( and while supposedly under gauranteed safe passage back ) Oh did I fall for that one:) Anyways, I liked the event even if I had to make a new character on his second event. The possibility of permanent death has to be established if you want realism in the game. I promise that I, and others, wont let that lesson be forgotten anytime soon.
Once again i want to thank Rav for talking me through my snit fit. Also I want to appologize to Robin publicly for my pointedly ignoring her during the event after I thought she had betrayed me. Sorry hon. Anyways Kudos to all involved in planning this event and for all of us being able to learn a great deal about the actual scope of the game. Take a bow oh minions of Pentag your acting was so realistic that I forgot it was a game and got pissed .

[Shea Stonebrook]

Skal you are one of the most LOYAL guys I know. I am so happy that you came back, made a new character and continued to play!! For me, the game would not be the same without you.

I am so grateful to you for working so hard, looking for Atreus and Audry's bodies, giving us the chance (albeit slim) to come back. I will never forget, and will always be grateful to you (and the others involved) for giving us the chance to draw 7 white chips!! That was THE highlight of the event for me!!! (I hope it showed.) You, Skal, are a true hero!

[WayneO42]

I must admit I didn't like how the Gryffin guild was basically abused by both the GM's and the plot. Our guild was devastated and only one member remains alive after this event besides Robin, who was turned to the dark side, and Gin whos behavior led to him fleeing for his life with the disrespect of all of Haven.

Ok, I really dont want to start an argument here but do you HONESTLY think that the plot staff wrote Robin in as a traitor? Robin is a PC who chose to be with pentag of her own free will. The destruction of the Gryfin guild was a result of PC action. The plot staff had nothing to do with it. We ALWAYS are hands off when it comes to the choices PCs make. If we mandated PCs make certain choices (Especially major ones) then they would be NPCs. PCs are all about free will.

[Tullus]

Im glad you came back to playing the game. Im also kinda glad your character didn't die along with Rav. I wouldn't have been able to roleplay with you as Tullus. Im starting to think that people will have difficulty not calling me Ravinal for awhile.

[Donovan Thynedar]

Believe me, Skal's efforts did not go unnoticed. His stock rose significantly in Donovan's book over the course of the event, and hearing of his demise was as hard for him as losing one of his own. He will be missed.

As for the Gryffins, many of us wondered where their loyalty would lie. With Robin on Pentag's side there was a great deal of concern that the whole guild would go bad, but the actions of Skal, Audry, Atrius, and Gin made Donovan willing to gamble everything on their character. It's the reason he couldn't bring himself to execute Xavier when his potential treason was brought to light.

Even Gin, who started by showing some serious animosity, had gained his respect by the end of the event. Donovan was not happy when Nuk and Seth returned with him bound and unconscious. He knew whatever ground they had gained in cooperation would likely be lost, and Gin's answer all but confirmed that. Given the situation Donovan couldn't let a potential enemy loose when they were already outmanned, but he didn't like it.

All told, the Gryffins were put through the ringer this event. The Phoenix may have lost more people in the defense of Haven, but we had a lot more to lose. Regardless of what happens now, the sacrifices that the Gryffins made for the people of Haven will not be forgotten.

[Kale]

I must admit I didn't like how the Gryffin guild was basically abused by both the GM's and the plot. Our guild was devastated and only one member remains alive after this event besides Robin, who was turned to the dark side, and Gin whos behavior led to him fleeing for his life with the disrespect of all of Haven.

Ok, I really dont want to start an argument here but do you HONESTLY think that the plot staff wrote Robin in as a traitor? Robin is a PC who chose to be with pentag of her own free will. The destruction of the Gryfin guild was a result of PC action. The plot staff had nothing to do with it. We ALWAYS are hands off when it comes to the choices PCs make. If we mandated PCs make certain choices (Especially major ones) then they would be NPCs. PCs are all about free will.

In order to explain what happened (so noone thinks that some sort of weird plot was going on, or bad roleplay was being established, etc), there was a sort of Stockholm's Syndrome going on. Through enough torture, I had swayed Robin over to the dark side, and eventually she fell "in love" with Pentag. Hence the leather outfit and S&M sort of mentality she had taken on I don't know how close the Gryphons and Corbyn came toward swaying her, but my other wives were very close to ganking Robin, while I was starting to think it would be a good idea to blindfold her and send her back into town. Which is why we started off'ing the Gryphons who were coming to us. I believed that I could see the character starting to rethink her decisions and my trust of Robin and her "assurances that her guild would blindly follow her into the pit of doom" began to fade. The whole "Gryphon Saga" was some great roleplaying and though it was a struggle and ultimately harmed the Gryphon's beyond repair, it was some sweet roleplay.

[Nelkie]

I understand Robins stituation, the Griffeons stituation, but why kill Arthos when he tried to defect to your side?

I came to roleplay with the evil NPC's becuase of my character history and what happened to me in game, but I was given a total of 8 minutes of roleplaying before I was killed. Griffeons got hours, Robin got months, I got minutes. I was excited about the prospects and the great roleplaying that would insue.

You thought I was a spy, but nobody tried to gleam any information out of me, set a test for me, or realy interact with me. I spent most of the time telling the evil NPC's my character history while being tortured and argued about the rules with evil NPC's, giving the them a benifit in my torture.

I feel let down and very disappointed in the stituation. And for the record, I'm not a spy and I was really trying to roleplay out my character and what would my demon half would do when released from imprisionment.

[GM_Chris]

What is funny Aaron is that one of the bad guys defected to the players side and I gave him about 30 seconds of role playing before I knocked him out and tied him to a tree so I could later feed upon him.


Why did I kill him? I killed him because I didn't believe him. I think you were killed because you have been a good guy for years and years and then tried to defect. Honestly I would not have believed you either. From a person who NPC's all the time how often does a character come in only to find themseves dead if the PC's even suspect its bad news?

The thing I liked about your death was how people were forced to make decisions without a lie detector. It was much more believable to me.

[Todd]

Dude. Let it go. You roleplayed trying to talk to them. They roleplayed Gacking you. End of scene.
Look at it this way, a few people (weaker then Pentags group as a whole) went to meet the bad guys. Pentag thought he had leverage (supposed loyalty to Robin) and new they were easily monitored if not controlled. Arthos strolls in. Your name alone should carry some weight, plus the fact that he figures you cannot be controlled (as a suposed spy he couldnt even mind-bend you). He and his cronnies remove you as a threat to them, and an Ally of Haven. Super win-win situation. Just cause it didnt go the way you wanted, or expected, doesnt mean it was bad.

Think of it as a compliment. Everyone else rated a slow and painful death. You were such a threat you needed to be killed quickly and efficiantly.

[Kale]

Arthos's death was a PK and nothing more. I don't know if Robin did it because she hated Arthos and wanted him dead or if she did it on accident, but she told me that you could not be tortured and lie under torture, and that is why you were killed. The Gryphons got some time because they appeared uncertain and Robin assured me that they could be turned.

Robin kept assuring me, assuring me, assuring me, but I saw no results, so when my Captain asked me "How hard you think Robin will take it when they...'attempt to escape in the middle of the night and die in doing so'...", I said that would be a pity, but these things happen. So they were executed in the middle on the night and Robin was led to believe that they had tried to escape.

You, on the other hand, Robin might as well have said "kill him, it is a trap".

Now, if you had done that earlier in the event, before I actually faced and fought you, before I had slit your throat the first time for attacking me, I would have been hesitant to take her word on it. However, as you HAD pursued me, routed me, fought me, and couldn't answer my questions with a straight answer, when she said "he can lie under torture", it really wasn't a tough decision on what to do.

You just have to remember, that there are many different factors that you do not have control over and you must consider those factors before engaging in something like you did.

Now mind you, this was the THIRD time I had you in my grasp. The first time, my "minions" failed to see me give the signal to take you. The second time was at this last event, out in the woods, when I slit your throat. The third time you actually came to me.

[Nelkie]

The mistakes I made was I did not name my Demon half in my character history and that I said I work with Pen in the past. I thought it would be a neat concept that Pen and my demon half would have crossed paths before the catacylism, since we ran in the same circles. But I didn't get a chance to talk to Brad about it and the oppurnity for this roleplaying moment came quickly and I had to grab for it.
I choose to roleplay instead of keeping my character safe. For that Arthos is dead and 4+ years of hard work is down the drain.

Arthos is dead, and I will move on

Chris, it is different for a NPC character to get killed vrs a PC character. Many people view NPC characters as plot items and as expendable. It takes alot for a PC to kill another PC, and even the evil NPC group was feeling the effects of their kills. (Man he been playing that character for X years and I just killed him, that kind sucks, etc... It's hard not to feel bad about it)

[GM_Chris]

Oh yeah it is different to kill a PC vrs an NPC.

I was only saying it is no different for the person doing the killing. An NPC who kills a PC feels as bad as a PC..well most of the time. Now from the person who gets killed they probably feel a little better knowing it came from an NPC vrs a PC and that is what I find weird.

Let me comment on your death more:

You are feeling bad you lost 4 plus years when you were trying to RP
your evil half with Pentag and he should have allowed it. Lets say he allowed the role playing and your evil demon man comed to help Pentag out. You say give information to Pentag that gives him the upper hand in attacking the town and you are on his side attacking the town. Your evil ROLE PLAY actions lead to the death of Vince, Julie, and Takki's characters. Would you have felt better about that? Do you think they would have felt good that their death was due to you feeling your character needed to betray them?

What about the people who role played inactivity? What about if there was a player near Atrum who refused to lift their weapon to fight because they felt "It wasn't their fight". Their Role play decision to not do anything directly lead to the death of 4 plus year characters. Down the drain. poof! How are those people who choose to do nothing some how better than the evil PC's who choose to be evil?

What about people who choose to run away from a battle against an NPC enemy which ends up killing their comrade because they choose to not run?

IMO cowardness and inactivity are very very anti heroic actions. They are the worse kind of actions in a heroic game. They are worse than being ganked while tied up.

[Kale]

But just think of all the different character concepts you could explore now!

I've been playing Ug for a while and while I do not want him to die (I have SOOOO much fun playing him), if he does die...well...I have 3 other characters lines up to play after him.

You have to think of it this way...If Pentag had walked into the Inn this event and told everyone that he was a good guy trapped in an evil man's body, and torture would tell them that it was the case, do you think they would have helped him, or killed him?

I think I know the answer

[Nelkie]

Would I have felt bad if I got all my friends killed when my demon half took over. Yes, I would. But there would have been many great roleplaying chances, epic fights, and a very enteraining story line. In the end I would have suffer the conquences of my character actions and whos to say if I would survived or not. I'm just disappointed I was never given the chance to roleplay it out.

For those who chose in-action and did not want to fight when the town needed them. They will have their own conquences to their actions they will have to face from the PC's. We all know who they where. I would not have a problem if I died in battle fighting the good fight. I was prepared to move on the first time I died because I was killed in a fair fight.

I come to FH to hang out with friends, fight, and RolePlay. I'm not angry that Arthos was killed, as I said, I feel disappointed a great oppurnity was lost.

[GM_Chris]

It is all good. Just saying some people may not have considered your great roleplay epic fight and all that as much fun as you. They may have just considered it a PK and got mad.

This converstion is not so much for you. I am trying my endless battle to curve PC thinking that NPC's and PC's are very much the same.

As I have said alot, if Pentag's crew was under my control. A gm and an NPC. I would have marched against the town and attemtped to kill everyone. There would have been no mercy