April 2015 feedback

[Ark]

obviously as this is a new rule set there is going to be rules stuff in here, however I will put that at the end and a disclaimer before it so you know when the classic feedback ends

Me and mine had a great time this event, the weather was fantastic, it seems like it always rains or something but it was clear skies and a great time all weekend. the site is fantastic, that was our first time at this site and we think its great, the cabin layout, that gorgeous inn building. christen came around with t-baby at game break to have a walkabout and thought it was awesome too. and the camp owner came and sat with us by our fire at the hill site a bit and talked with us about the site, turns out that those buildings are all about 80 years old, the door handles too (that explains a lot ) great site though.

of the plots I did go on the phoenix one brad did was by far and away one of my favorite plots I have been on in the past years. . .maybe in my entire FH time. because of the environmental mechanics and challenges. that was loads of fun and I cannot stress more plots like that enough.

didn't really have any negative points, even just going on a walkabout in the morning was fun because that site is cool. and the political intrigue and messengers being killed added a really cool feel. like we were alone and cut off from stuff that might be going on. cool stuff.

my one negative I do have however, is that big end of event plots where the PC's come together to fight (insert large problem, baddy, thing here) seem to be starting very late, these used to start kind of soon after game break, then wind up around midnight, then the small "loose ends" would be there for people still up. more and more the big end of event plots seem to be starting later and later and loose ends moved to the beginning of the next event. I would kind of like to see a return to form.

btw to PC's, if you cannot spank it, don't tank it, if you cannot kill it, don't agro it. hitting something much stronger then yourself then running through PC's screaming help is not good, some of us will just step aside and let it kill you, seriously.

**rules disclaimer**

I think shatter is too powerful especially given its prevalence and especially compared to stagger and scorch, I think it should simply reduce the targets armor total to 0 and be moved accordingly. we have a skill for dealing with weapons and shields, its called disarm, and if that becomes a little more relevant as a side effect I think that's great. perhaps remove disarm from parry and make it its own resist as a result.

the game stop point cast spells or ones that seem to do lash are pretty deadly, especially because you could not seem to dodge, dive for cover, or resist some of these, they had no counter play to them other then "i hope you can tank this" and that is kind of boring

(EDIT: and moved discussion to rules) from a healer. . .transfusion is dumb, im sorry to say that in a rude way but really. requiring 3 separate skills to deal with negs is silly. it should be first aid, then surgery, and that's it! first aid like it is now so that people can grab someone in slight negs and help out, and surgery should work for everything after that. the inclusion of transfusion, and the silly way it works therein, is dumb and not required.

the new path and discipline tweaks I feel have been really cool, and other then specific examples have nothing bad to say on that.

shields. . .there annoying, we know it, you know it, thus the amount of shatter. balance them.

that's it for now, if I think of more I will post later, still very tired and sore after the event ^_^

[Marcus]

healers. . .transfusion is dumb, im sorry to say that in a rude way but really. requiring 3 separate skills to deal with negs is silly. it should be first aid, then surgery, and that's it! first aid like it is now so that people can grab someone in slight negs and help out, and surgery for everything after that. the inclusion of transfusion, and the silly way it works therein, is dumb and not required.

While this isn't the section for rules talk, I'll chime in as it is also feedback on the new rules. I use it plenty. It's for when Surgery will get you between -9 and 0, but First Aid will not get them to 0. Transfusion and Extend Life are much better now as they stop bleed out times and Transfusion is now twice as fast. Just with those three skills and not adding in chips from surgery, you can bring back someone from -19 with absolutely no risk of them dying as long as you can be somewhere safe for the time required. Before you had to also use Extend Life to get that transfusion time (the old time used to give you the exact three minutes it took to transfer 6 life into a target, and if they got hit they also died instantly. Lets not even go into having the Advanced Path Specialty Transfusion making it so that you can extend the previous situation to -25 with no risk, just by putting the Transfusion in the middle of the surgery and first aid order.

Healer is all about the process to get the needed results, and everything they can get from skills to exotic items affects the speed of that process in some positive way.

The new rules dropped a skill from that mix and made it easier to boot. Consider this long time healer very happy with the changes as I have encountered them so far.

Onto the event feedback, I had a lot of fun all over the place. The battle Saturday night was great, as well as our 4AM sortie to strike back at the encampment of the mercs that started the whole process. The only part I can't understand is how/why everything that was hitting us were elementals, which I read to mean that someone out there has some sort of insanely powerful summoning abilities, because we encountered a grand total of two humans way at the end, unless i was mistaking some NPC's in the main fight, but then tracking them back led us to a camp of humans that fought in more expected ways. I'm assuming with the info we got, the elementals were a test, with the humans as observers, though things still seemed incongruous.

Also, it was awesome to be a part of using music to enhance the cooperation and immersion of ritual magic, even if that was just us goofing off. It was still absolutely memorable to fight a nearly bloodless werewolf fight (not even a werewolf died, and the one that we dropped of maybe a dozen, we healed!), and then have a circle of people doing Blue Swede to remove a curse. To those who were no there, yes we did the vocals, too.

https://youtu.be/109xEXkCW7c

[Abaddon]

I like the new rule set over all. I don't understand what the issue with with shields was as how math now makes it better or why we don't use standard rounding or actual area for shield sizes but what ever. I don't use them.


1. Magous needs to go back to wizard. A wizard did it sounds cool. every time somone says a magus did it, doug looks over. (kidding names don't mean much. If anyone wants a rant on why wiccans have no claim on witch please pm me, it's not going here."

2. As far as play tests do, some of the scrolls I got to play test, there very abilities made it unlililky to be used. (improved death link.) I sure used it, but i don't want to have to die to test it. Simulacrum is isusationally good. (it did get used but for nothing.)

3. I can not WAIT to summon monster. Or line attack teleport.

4. Dont horde the scrolls. The gms are going to be putting them in and the more you use for play testing the more we will get. data sample sizes and all that.

5. Imperium. If marcus hadn't been there you would be dead. Super dead. and eaten. Stop being suspicious assholes. PCS: DONT RUN OFF with the box of the quest. we have a process and EVERYONE earned the right to get part of the loot. No one will work with you ever again when you pull that crap. (or worse.) Just because you happen to be there when the door opens doesn't give the right not to Bogart the gear. Pus there is a 75% chance there in a world ending horror in every box of crackerjacks. (if abaddon is the voice of reason and sharing we have a problem.)

6. Favorite plot hands down was the bunny plot. The bunnies were fun and hilarious but what I really liked was the twist. A serial killer driven crazy by his his own device that pawns a "good" second personality working against him. That's so unique I will probably have to steal it.

7. The fantasy trope of the evil dracolitch becoming death is the kind of plot abaddon can get behind. He hates it when other people think they are more powerful than he is, and he will not chase lost dogs.

The attacks seemed infrequent and not many plots. I want to second ark. (and wash my mouth out.) The lateness of the saturday plots made it impossible for me. I went to bed at 1 am. and it was desolate and quiet for hours before hand. I thik you may need to adjust for all the desperate groups.

[Alinar]

I had fun but didn't really have enough to do. I don't think there's anything that could be done about that, however. With a limited number of NPCs and a significant number of small PC groups always seeking to do things, it looked like NPC camp was overdrawn. I imagine that's why the Big Battle started so late, too. I had nearly fallen asleep in the tavern and was minutes from retiring for the evening when the first elemental burst in.

Perhaps NPC Camp could just start saying 'no' to groups (or individuals) that are boggarting a disporportionate amount of attention from them. Should the NPCs find themselves spending all their time with the same people, they could say something like "Sorry, you'll need to wait until next event to do that. We just don't have the NPCs to keep up with you!" when they come back to do more.

The three or four plots I did go on were fun. Brad was, as always, extremely entertaining and immersive. He deserves a Hero Point (NPCs with Hero Points? AAAAHHH!) Most of the NPCs were very powerful - requiring a significant group to down - but that's expected when the NPCs are heavily outnumbered. Yet there were two engagements where I could one-shot the baddies with either Sleep or Scorch.

Shatter does seem too prevalent. Take a PC's (Or NPC's) weapon away and many are neutered for the rest of the scene (perhaps even the rest of the event). Take away a front-liner's armor and you may well have taken him off the line for the rest of the event. Finding replacement weapons or armor is rare, as NPCs are seldom equipped with them. Reducing armor to zero would be much better. A more temporary solution to weapons would be better, too. Disarm may be too temporary, but maybe something like Snag, where the weapon or shield flies to the castor, may work.

[Abaddon]

making resist shatter an augment or essence boon could help.

[Zydana]

If you want to weigh in on the Transfusion/Healing below 0 discussion, please go here http://goo.gl/dC1yTK

This event was pretty slow. It is somewhat forgivable due to the effort the staff had put into the rules and fixing things based on feedback and somehow managing to continue on with their real lives (What's that?!). I think a special kudos goes out to Mike for his quick response times in answering our rule questions either in posts or PM over the last month.

The event seemed to have a decent start, I was excited to try out the new rules and was eager for a full event. We went on the plot with the golems and the Magic Jazz Hands Door. The puzzle was a bit frustrating after a lot of trial and error since we didn't understand what we needed to do - or that the lantern wasn't only being used as a light source, but something you could interact with kinda threw us off. Once we got the door open, the "grab the chest and run" response was a bit shocking. The final golem was forced to stay confined in his cave as we ran off, running after people who ran off with the chest. I thought it would turn into some horror movie scenario where the golem would eventually escape and come after us, picking us off one by one in our sleep. I was impressed with CJ in having Marcus say enough is enough and diffuse the heated situation between the players and Korrigan's men.

I spent a good time at NPC camp on Friday trying to fix my tag situation. I figured since I had submitted my reasons/explanations and concerns with some of my tags that week leading up to the event and from the response I got, I thought it would have been taken care of before I got there. It wasn't. Okay, not that huge of a deal - but what really rubbed me the wrong way was that another GM decided to lecture me on the situation (although I had spoken and cleared everything with another GM earlier in the week). Not only that, but the GM also decided to single handedly change a tag of mine so that THE ONLY BENEFIT TO USING IT would be that I LOSE 40 COPPER EVERY TIME I USE IT. This was after the first GM and I talked (previous to the event) and made an agreement of "trying it out." I would have been OK with GM #2 not agreeing with GM #1 and suggesting that the two (or more GMs) discuss the matter, but just overriding a decision just put a sour taste in my mouth that one GM thinks they have more say-so than another. Grr..

I can't say I remember much else of Friday night. I stopped by the bathhouse before I went to bed for the night and what I saw, I thought looked cool as I approached. The two small fields/clearings down the hill on either side of the bath house had a single lantern in the middle of them. It looked like each field had it's own plot going. I thought maybe that both fields had the same exact same plot/scenario going at the same time based on the set up, or maybe it was two rooms or chambers of one plot and they were working together. Probably neither, but it looked cool. I finally fell asleep, but woke up for every person that walked into our cabin.

Saturday morning I think I was awake at least an hour before giving up on trying to get more sleep and finally go up. I liked the idea of the kitchen utensil golems (especially when I put my sword down on the counter for some reason and a golem spawned between it and I, and I wound up jumping a counter), but they were... uhh.. a bit pesky when trying to use the stove (I'm glad I wasn't trying to fry eggs!). (I'm glad the kitchen isn't a combat safe zone - but remember there are additional hazards)

Based on feedback from previous events, I was expecting to see a RED X plot hook Saturday early afternoon. Not sure there was a Red X plot this event. We traveled to NPC camp to question a new rule that wasn't discussed much (or at all) on the forum. We got it cleared up, had a few peanut butter M&Ms and I played with the wind-up bunny (out of game) where I declared that to be the best plot of the event thus-far! There was a big gap between the pots and pans monsters and anything else, I figured I should start the process of grilling lunch. I saw there were plots happening and most looked diplomatic (VS combative).

***GAME BREAK*** Last time I was at that restaurant, I don't think there was anyone else from the event there outside the 4 people at my table. HOLY COW! I enjoyed the conversation at the table (and some inclusion from Nick and others at the other table), but I was dead tired and struggling to stay awake while waiting for food, eating and waiting for bill. Coffee drink from Marathon helped a bit.

Excited for battle against the Dracolich I tried to hurry in putting my costume back on. We were called out of our cabin my PCs, I didn't have time to put my make-up on (so I brought it with). We didn't want to be left out of the fight. We stood around an NPC while tried to slather on my face paint.. and waited.. and waited. After realizing we weren't going to be whisked away to fight a dracolich, I ran back to the cabin and picked up my colored pencils and used Alinar's super-reflective armor to apply the rest of the make-up. I secretly wished he would have caught me, but he didn't - or was being too proud of an elf to let know that he did notice. After the group was done talking to the NPC, we walked a few yards to stand around and talk to another NPC (Angie was far to tired to concentrate on what was going on, which I guess helps play Kami, who is usually too uninterested to care what's going on).

After a bit at the inn, we went on the bunny man plot. Everyone ran out the door after the giant bunnies, leaving Marcus and Kami alone with crazy bunny man (What the heck guys?!). I am often surprised in the rare instances where Kami is able to hold her own (Thanks Brad!)... which apparently also surprised and somewhat concerned Marcus. With bunny man tied up and laying on the floor, we waited for the others to return. I agree this was the best plot of the event, but not for the same reasons Travis mentioned (although that was cool too). *click* *click* *click*

We waited around the tavern for a while. Travis got tired and went to bed. I stayed up despite being dead tired, hoping for the Saturday night battle (although there had been no indication of one to come). I was about to give up when I saw NPCs setting up lights outside around the tavern (although in game we were told we couldn't see the lights), so I left. I came back after the announcement of the town being under siege.

I didn't understand what was going on really. There were elementals attacking... okay. This didn't seem to fit with the rest of the event. At least, I hadn't seen any story arc. There were some various golems, but elementals? nope. Oh well. The fight was fairly lack-luster. Taki tried to spice things up a bit with setting people on fire, but I'm not sure pointing at, and removing people from the battle was the way to go. The best part of the fight was standing behind Brad and Jared as the water and fire elementals as additional spectators of the fight . Overall, this fight seemed like something the GMs put together right before doing it, and mostly played it by ear during. Blach.

The mage and rogue seemed like an after thought, tack it on, bit after the fight. Oh well, at least bodies can keep you warm.

I stayed up for a bit after that. I heard complaints about lack of loot. I went to bed. (although I heard there was a bit more stuff that was done after).

***ADDITIONAL FEEDBACK***

Blue Beak Avyana guy - Please come back! I really enjoyed your piano playing. It added a great feel to the tavern. I bet if you put out a tip cup, you'll earn some quick in game cash!

COSTUMES - I feel we are starting to really fall short on costuming guys. I know some of us are poor, but you have until your 3rd event to get costuming. There are many vets with a year or two under their belt not properly garbed. Dress slacks and a T-shirt is NOT costuming and if it were up to me, I wouldn't let you have your costuming life point for it! Go to Goodwill or some yard sales and find some accessories.

SCROLLS - I would have liked to see more scrolls in the hands of the non-magus. This is more so on the player end, and not the staff. I would have also liked to see some of the level 2 and 3 spells go out as scrolls to see how it would affect battles with non-magus types also casting spells.

2. As far as play tests do, some of the scrolls I got to play test, there very abilities made it unlililky to be used. (improved death link.) I sure used it, but i don't want to have to die to test it. Simulacrum is isusationally good. (it did get used but for nothing.)

I agree. Equally, with delay poison. I didn't hear any poison attacks this event.. disease either. Also, when using death link or abundance/plague scrolls, how do you prove the scroll was used? and on what item/land? Need to figure a method so that there isn't any he said, she said arguments after the fact.

SPELL PACKETS - Since CJ didn't mention it, I will. IF IT'S NOT YOURS, DON'T TAKE IT! There is a no stealing rule in the book. Stealing applies to spell packets too. In battle, packets get jumbled and after a while you reuse what's convenient - fine. After the battle, don't leave the field with a packet that's not yours - help it find it's mommy or daddy. We may need to come up with a bucket or designated picnic table top to use as a lost spell packet reuniting station. At the end of the event, lost and found spell packets should be turned into NPC camp, just like any other lost item.

ITEM TAGS - THESE DO NOT GET STORED IN YOUR CAR! You can not use your car to store your in game items to keep them safe. Do NOT store your in game items and out of game stuff in the same container. Your resources and magic items should not be found under your blue jeans. Your in game money should not be found among your credit cards and real money. Keeping these things separate helps people recognize what's out of game and should not be messed with and prevents some OOG stealing temptations.

[Zefiir]

I will be quite concise, as I'm usually a rambler: This was my first LARP ever, and I have to say, I had an utter blast! The plots were super-interesting (click-click-click!), and I thought the location was both scenic and conducive to good storytelling! There was a bit of down-time outside NPC camp waiting for GM's, but that's just a natural constraint of the number of GM's, and not anybody's fault. So, in short: great stories, and great event! I'm already anxious for June!

(Also, this is blue-beak Av'yanna guy, and I'm sure to come back! )

[Zydana]

(Also, this is blue-beak Av'yanna guy, and I'm sure to come back! )

HORRAY!!

[SirJoriel]

The good: staff was accommodating for being so scarce. The players for the most part role played very well and I enjoyed many of the scenes we shared. The camp was amazing, including the small camps around the area the player had. The plots were amazing, when they were clear on what's going on. Had a few fun side pc adventures as well. Lastly the knighting. Though attendance was lackluster I appreciate everyone who was there.

The bad: some of the plots were unclear as to what was going on. I was unimpressed with some of the players garb, shorts and hoodies are no Bueno. If it was your first event, that's fine but you can always ask. Check out wasn't available and there were complications due to this.

The ugly: end of event plot at 430 am sucked. I understand there are always hiccups but I had to pass out or die of exhaustion. I missed Phil, and without Taki on the field it was literally ugly. He pretties it up. Lastly whoever blamed me for all the dishes. I did leave a single pot and didn't clean the flat top. I'm sorry, but to the rest of the people, to which Paul, Gabe, and Angie did your dishes as well as mine you owe them a thank you.

Other: shout out to Jim, Matt, Erik, Paul, and Gabriel. You folks specifically made it a great event. Kiel too, but his ego couldn't handle any extra buffing.

This was my first Final Haven and I enjoyed specifically Mike and Brad as I get to know you. I tried to keep my time short and sweet with the lines but trust me, in the future I will take some of your time. Merrick and Nick, you guys are probably my favorite people to fight. You always present a challenge and provide epic role playing experience. Anyone I forgot, I didn't feel like typing your name .

-Sir Joriel-

[Kiel Reid]

I didn't get in until Saturday morning but it was definitely good to come out and see everyone. I haven't really had a lot of opportunities to visit Final Haven over the past few years. I really like the camp a lot! I enjoyed hanging out at the fire pit and there were lots of nice places for us to explore.

I enjoyed my interactions with Brad's NPC who transformed the wolves into beast creatures. I appreciate you being flexible in regards to the ritual.

Past that I just had a lot of interactions with players. A lot of trading stuff and roleplay. It would have been awesome to have more NPC's but that is understandable.

I'll talk about rules elsewhere.

Thanks for a fun event!

[Vivac]

This was my first full Final Haven event. I had a really good time! It was a really nice change of pace from playing Winter Haven

Friday night game on didn't start till a bit later due to check in but I didn't mind at all. Everyone should have expected check in this event to be at least a little chaotic.

After game on it was a bit slow but I was occupied with sitting around a fire chatting. Eventually I did go on some plots that were fun for me! I adopted a more non lethal approach to some scenes and it made the role play a lot more fun! I really like the game staff of Final. Mike and Brad are very flexible and make for an enjoyable experience on the field. Jared of course is always a favorite of mine and I can't help but be drawn to a plot that he is in

My only plot complaint that was NPC related is the late start of the big plot Saturday night. However I completely understand why so no biggie. Aside from that there was a lot of miscommunication between PCs on what was happening and what was connecting plots. I'll admit even my information giving was getting a little fudged because of slightly different but similar info being given about multiple plots. At the end of the night they all just kind of got mixed up for me.

Aside from that, I had a blast role playing and kicking butt with friends. I'm loving playing an Empath! Thanks to th Gm staff for putting up with my uses for essence gathering skills, it really made for a fun experience.
I'll definitely be coming back!

-Vivac of the West Tower

[Marcus]

SPELL PACKETS - Since CJ didn't mention it, I will. IF IT'S NOT YOURS, DON'T TAKE IT! There is a no stealing rule in the book. Stealing applies to spell packets too. In battle, packets get jumbled and after a while you reuse what's convenient - fine. After the battle, don't leave the field with a packet that's not yours - help it find it's mommy or daddy. We may need to come up with a bucket or designated picnic table top to use as a lost spell packet reuniting station. At the end of the event, lost and found spell packets should be turned into NPC camp, just like any other lost item.

I forgot this till Angie posted it but YES! A million times YES. I don;t carry as many packets as Marcus because for roleplaying purposes I deliver Repel and Banish through my weapon unless it's an extreme situation, but I took to the field with a dozen identical packets, and left the game with 6. I can see one or two ending up under fallen leaves, but with the lack of plots deep in the woods, that means most of those orphans left in someone's pocket. Not only am I constantly hounded for spare packets for those that need them, I have even once or twice over the years had players try to lawyer their way out of giving me back one of mine that they picked up because "but they needed packets".

Make em', boys and girls. If I can't nab a spare latex sword laying on the battlefield because I didn't bring a weapon, you can't keep packets that are not yours when you leave the scene of a plot. I will happily let you use them if you absolutely need one and one of mine is close at hand on the ground because I fully admit to doing that, too, but empty your pockets of packets that are not yours when a scene/plots ends, even if you have to drop them at GM camp so they can be found by owners.

I know people out there are blatantly keeping packets that are not theirs for themselves, because once I made a full 50 packets (the bright pink ones that say "NPC", in an effort to guilt-trip players into not swiping them) for Final Haven GM camp. At the very next WinterHaven, I must have seen at least half a dozen of them being used by players- I actually took any I could find on the ground back to Final Haven, as it was only right as they paid me in reward points for them, otherwise they would have gone directly to the WH NPC camp for them to use.