racial boons and racial disciplines

Ark · Post by **Ark** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 5:01 pm

i felt this was the classic FH blunder of 1 step foward, 3 steps back.

i dont really feel races should be tied to mechanics, this can go both ways. you hope to encourage players to play other races by giving those races benifits. on the flip side, races get grouped in particular with those specific benifits. meh i dont like the beast man discipline so why should i play one?

people should play the race because they like the race, they like the history, the RP, it fits there character, etc.

Rhul the beastman, perfect example
Vaun the Valkyn'Vi, perfect example
travis i forgot your characters name

but another perfect example

these players were going to play this race regardless of what mechanical choices came with it.
on the other side you have people playing a race just for the mechanical benifit. i do this, and i admit it, i wont say the race but i will say i know very little about the race or its history. i use disguise to circumvent the apearence and play as a human, because i do like playing that. it fits the character. i do have a beastman that is part wolf though. i have all the costume for it and he looks great. was the discipline the reason i made him? not in the slightest.

i think the races should be a choice for those that truly want to play the race. because you love the race or it fits your character perfectly. i dont think mechanics should be tied to it.

you did a great job when anyone could take any boon. but then you went backwards and gave everything a discipline. can you please untie disciplines from races?

Post by **GM_Chris** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 5:28 pm

Personally I really dislike how we uncoupled abilities from races. Abilities and disciplines add to the "story" of that race, when you remove the mechanics, IMO, it makes everything kind of bla.

Wyrmwrath · Post by **Wyrmwrath** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 5:33 pm

I agree, reaces SHOULD have powers/skills/abilities attached to them. All of mythology has examples of such being the case.

Picking a race because of what it can do and ignoring the RP of it is the choice of the player. They can chose to come to the game to role play, or come to the game and treat it lie a live video game. The former is the more enriching by a magnatude...

Ark · Post by **Ark** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 2:12 pm

yeah i figured this would not change, in fact it seems to be swinging the other way, they lost boons but gained disciplines. i would not be surprised if they lost disciplines and gained paths.

yeah you know someone is going "hmmm thats not a bad idea"

cole45 · Post by **cole45** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 3:36 pm

The question is......why does it matter? Dont like them? Dont take them.

You dont have to enforce your world view.

Boons were changed o give players more freedom on thevfront end.

You want to play a phanterrian elf? Throw magic.
You want to play an elf from the world of darksun? Take flee. We as gms would have let you swap any how.

Post by **GM_Chris** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:41 pm

You want a racial discipline and you don't want to play that race then talk to a gm.

You want your own personalized discipline then talk to a gm.

Ark · Post by **Ark** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:48 pm

GM_Chris wrote:You want a racial discipline and you don't want to play that race then talk to a gm.

awsome

GM_Chris wrote:You want your own personalized discipline then talk to a gm.

not awsome, disciplines are in theory ballanced in multiple ways over a long period of time (what other skills are in the lifestyle, ease of access to them, what stacks and what doesn't, etc.) letting everyone pick what they want willi nilli is a whole new system entirley.

actually on that point Wayne had an idea like that back in the day, and wanted me to use it at SH, but SH was meant to bring people into FH so the idea never saw itself past concept because we didnt want to confuse people only to bring them into a different system.

in any case if your just going to let people pick there own skills and make it a discipline why have them in the first place?

Post by **GM_Chris** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 7:53 pm

Good question about the disciplines.

We have a pretty good idea after 12 years what should be and what should not be in a discipline. Anyone who wanted something custom we would consider. It would go through the process all discipline go through and like all new things might go through a series of nerfs or changes if something is broken.

Wyrmwrath · Post by **Wyrmwrath** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 10:15 pm

You want a racial discipline and you don't want to play that race then talk to a gm.

oh really? I posted on Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:24 pm

A few years back in a conversation with Chris and a few other GM types over builds and races and such, I was told that it was possible to take any path/discipline/race and role play it is I wanted if the build better fit the concept than what was intuative. At the time I belive we were talking about priveledged warrior knights and orcs, who are typicaly seen as savage or common at best.

Is that policy still in place? In particular could I use a warrior path and dwarf racial discipline but play it as a orc? I ask as I am trying to gather the orc tribe back together *winks*

Travis wrote on Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:32 pm

in the case of RACIAL Displines, no. You have to phyrep the race to which they belong.

in the terms of all other disciplines, yes you can say your knight is an assassin or what ever you want.

That is unless a GM says otherwise.

Chris worte on Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:25 pm

I believe there is a missunderstanding. Travis is saying that you cant take the orc discipline and then call yourself an elf.

Phil wrote on Fri Apr 22, 2011 8:59 pm

The why of it, as I know it was..

Since the Racial boons were generalized into Essence boons and available to everyone the Racial Disciplines were created to allow a person who costumes and RP's a race extremely well to have the ability to purchase something (in your words) a Gamer could not.

They are meant as a reward for good RP and costuming, essentially like the Racial boons used to be.

Sooo. in fact you cantget an OK from a GM, unless I just didnt ask all of them fishing for a yes (my bad), as three of them said no when I asked. Asked in fact because that discipline seemed fit the orcs as they were.

You want your own personalized discipline then talk to a gm.

Also walked that path, twice. Was told all the disciplines were already in the game, even if hidden and none were being added.

Post by **GM_Chris** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 10:22 pm

Yep as Travis said, and you quoted..."unless a gm says otherwise."

Wyrmwrath · Post by **Wyrmwrath** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 10:31 pm

Yep as Travis said, and you quoted..."unless a gm says otherwise."

In that post, when he posted this:

That is unless a GM says otherwise.

he is speaking of:

in the terms of all other disciplines, yes you can say your knight is an assassin or what ever you want.

not:

in the case of RACIAL Displines, no. You have to phyrep the race to which they belong.

or the post would have been this:

"in the case of RACIAL Displines, no. You have to phyrep the race to which they belong.
That is unless a GM says otherwise.

in the terms of all other disciplines, yes you can say your knight is an assassin or what ever you want. "

Ultimately, it comes down to asking a GM ends up with no, so telling Ark to ask a GM is pointless.

Post by **GM_Chris** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 10:48 pm

Last I checked none of the Gm's are English majors and it is very easy for misunderstandings to occur.

I will attempt to say the following as clearly as possible.

All of the rules in the book stand exactly the way they are worded...unless a Gm says differently.