Resist, Immune, No effect

Zeira · Post by **Zeira** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:34 am

When I resist something or am immune to a call or I'm Defensive Matrixing do I have to say 'No effect' or "Resist" or "Immune"?

Malachi · Post by **Malachi** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 4:58 pm

Technically no, but it's nice to do so. It's a courtesy thing.

Woden · Post by **Woden** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 6:32 pm

A simple 'No effect' or 'Resist' is (imo) necessary so the attacker knows how the effect was recieved. If Im attacking with, say magic, and I hear 'Immune/No Effect' I am not going to continue charging Booms. But, if I hear 'Resist' I may keep it up under the assumption that a small amount of damage is getting through with each 'resisted' attack.

Onimaster · Post by **Onimaster** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:34 pm

I am of two minds on the issue. Right now I do not think there is a need to call a 'no effect' in the rules. I am unsure about resist...

Like Scott says, in my eyes it's a courtesy. Otherwise a player would need to notice that the 30s he's tossing aren't doing anything. Knowing that the 30s are being resisted as opposed to immune is a metagaming moment. The character might not see anything to indicate that knowledge/observation.

GM-Phil · Post by **GM-Phil** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 6:41 am

I have brought this up before and I will say it again..

for the sake of a call, i think it should be mandatory in the rules to say something if you are using a "Resist" or "Immunity".. in my opinion it should be a call "No Effect". I also think "Parry" shoudl need to be called if it already is not so in the rules.

This gives the attacker the knowledge that the defender heard his/her call and understood it but that it had no obvious effect... they can then decide if they wish to continue that line of attack, not knowing if the defender "resisted" the attack or is just "immune".

In my thoughts there would be no obvious way for the attacker to tell the difference and only leads to Meta-gaming moments.. I have actually been involved in these instances and is why I am of strong opinion on this.

Zeira · Post by **Zeira** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:15 am

What if i'm faking like I'm injured or I'm using roleplay. I'll give you some examples.

Bob is being tortured and uses a hero point to resist. When it comes time for the demaded question bob lies but does not say 'resist'.

Bob is in the midst of combat. Bob is struck by a sleep effect and resists but falls on the ground to fool his attackers by faking sleep.

Bob is in the midst of combat. He is struck a mighty blow and parrys it but falls to the ground feigning injury.

Woden · Post by **Woden** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:48 am

An easy way to handle it is to make Immunities (assuming we keep them) unlimmitted Resists. Then you just call Resist. I do admit that it cuts into RP but its hard to get rid of and still monitor the PCs for infractions.

Post by **GM-Mike** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:59 am

It seems like you should be able to fake sleeping any time you want...

Atrum Draconus · Post by **Atrum Draconus** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:43 pm

You can, but you still should have to call resist (or something I could care less what it is), if people are going to metagame it then they suck and should be flayed with H1N1 slobbered on rusty steel. But it should be plainly obvious whether or not your chest is laying open from a 30 magic or whether or not a 9 poison hurt you at all. ESPECIALLY since now you don't take any damage at all, THAT is far far too obvious not to announce.

Onimaster · Post by **Onimaster** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:54 pm

That's why I like 'no effect' for either a resist or immunity. You would see that 30 magic didn't blow a hole in a guy, but the 1 point for the resist would be less noticeable.

GM-Phil · Post by **GM-Phil** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 5:27 pm

As for faking it... in the case of "Sleep" effects and the like if you get hit with a "KO" or "Sleep" and resist it's effects, but still fall down and pretend.. then the player that hit you with it should also play as if you are asleep.

Now I know this probably happens very little, and would be nice if there was no meta-gaming.. but thats the way it is. This game is built on player trust, and we should all try to play that way.

Malachi · Post by **Malachi** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 5:52 pm

An easy way to handle it is to make Immunities (assuming we keep them) unlimmitted Resists. Then you just call Resist.

I like the idea of a single, mandatory call if an attack/effect is resisted (or you're immune). It lets the attacker know that the attack had 'little or no' effect, and also cuts down on someone spamming 'Fear' on a Knight or 'Sleep' on a Man at Arms in order to do '1 Vorpal' instead of the initial effect.

It may seem a little whiny, but I've seen NPC's (noteably, they were players NPCing, not gamestaff, but still) swing paired sleep (period) with no charge time or (noticable) consequence

cole45 · Post by **cole45** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:03 am

Players NPCing is one of 2 things.

1. SPECIAL PLOT. SUCK IT UP.

2. (more likely) The GMs or NPC in charge didn't really esplain well to the player. It happens.

I agree with the the declaration of RESIST. it's short, people are all ready used to using it and cuts down on cheesing.

I think it and PARRY , and franky, HEROIC should ALL be manditory. I called heroic when I use a hero point just to make sure everyone knows i'm not being a turd.

Kiel: trust me when ou play dead, even if you called the resisted people will still sit around and let you boom them. trust me.

Ark · Post by **Ark** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:44 pm

ive always been specific when resistng something, so people know and dont call cheeze or a game stop because someone dosnt want others to know what they can do, in a system with so few skills and dieciplines, its hard to not know what people are

if i can resist it, i call resist, if i can parry it, i call parry, if im immune, i call no effect, if i use a hero point, heroic no effect.

it avoids confusion and is easy to remember, although if i could resist sleep, and was slept. i would do one of two things

- resist the call, anounce that i resisted it, and run away.
or
- resist the call, not say i resisted it, and fain sleep.

Woden · Post by **Woden** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 10:09 am

Ark wrote:or - resist the call, not say i resisted it, and fain sleep.

This is really the root of the problem though.
IS a vocal resist call manditory? And if it is its assumed that its to stop metagaming and cheating, BUT..
By vocally resisting you are announcing your status, and that means the person apposing you has to make a decission and avoid metagaming.
Its almost perpetual.

I dont think any decission will be perfect, but a clear line needs to be set.
Its kinda like baseballs 'tie goes to the runner', sucks if your not the runner, but at least you knew how the rule worked ahead of time, even if it is arbetrary.