Hidden stuff

dier_cire · Post by **dier_cire** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 3:36 pm

Just wanted to make a note of my thoughts on the hidden elements of the game. I've never been a real great fan of having special rules that only a few people have, expecially when concerning combat.

My main reason for not liking hidden things is mainly due to this. Combat is a very hectic situation as is. Now, I have my set of skills and I run into combat knowing how people should react when I use them since I know how/if they can be countered. However, one individual acts completely the opposite and escapes me when I'm unaware of a method to do that. Now, is this them not hearing me and making an honest mistake, them just ignoring things and not wanting to die, or do they have some hidden skill I don't know about? (Sorry, Eric, to use our combat as an example, I know you just didn't hear the call, but it's a pretty good example)

The first two allow the character to live when they shouldn't have which is unfair (though mistakes happen and that's perfectly acceptable), but you can't inquire until well after everything is said and done and that is too late. Saying something right then helps the guy who made a mistake (though he/she may still be a little annoyed) but just pisses off the guy who was ignoring you. Now if they have a hidden skill, they generally won't want to tell you, and that creates unecessary tension as well (examples from CARPS: Conner casting fire dart or Jorj being questioned on necromancy, both of which people thought were cheated). Trusting people is well and good in a game system but honestly abusing that trust too easy to do.

Now onto new paths/disciplines that use pre-existing skills. This is cool. I have no issue with this. Like say you wanted a ninja discipline. He could have escape artist, stun, pass wall, and say vorpal. (This is overpowered due to the stun/passwall but hey it's an example). None of these are new, and players won't be surprised to hear the calls or the rules. However, they do not know of the discipline so there is still mystery without the need for special rules. Plus, keeping these balanced is easy.

Post by **GM_Chris** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 3:47 pm

You are always going to be up against the unknown.

I think people need to not worry about who is cheating who is not cheating. Cheaters will eventually be caught.

-Chris

dier_cire · Post by **dier_cire** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 4:19 pm

I just prefer to weed them out sooner than eventually.

Todd · Post by **Todd** » Sat Sep 27, 2003 12:03 pm

While I disagree that "Hidden" disciplines make things difficult, (i.e. not attacking someone because you know they have an ace up their sleave is Metagaming)

But I do understand what your saying about communication. And lets face it, we've been saying from the start we want ease of play, and communication to be smooth enough that we can concenterate on "Role-Playing" at its best. That being said I think that we could accomodate any 'special' skills that would allow some odd effect (that would be used instantly) to be relayed by a statement of "No Effect" or some such, just to distinguish it from a missed call. (although as of yet, I dont know of any in-game at this time)

However, as a seperate example, some effects would be concidered 'non-evasive' for instance what happened this event with the death of Aluse (Karen). The effect of the Dicsipline had absolutely No effect on the combat, or indeed the actual death, and therefor was no reason for it to be made public. As long as the Character in question (in this case Karen) and the Plot team where aware of the gameplaying ramifications. Ok, I'll give you the fact that it didnt come off as seemlessly as we had imagined, (ug, what an understatement ) But I think we learned how to manage that type of thing in the future.

Donovan Thynedar · Post by **Donovan Thynedar** » Sat Sep 27, 2003 1:35 pm

I don't think there's anything wrong with a character having something unique about them in game, though I would agree that keeping it within the rough framework of the existing rules will help ease confusion. In the case of an ability that cannot be explained by the "common" rules, I think people should use the same honor system that is used for all of the other rules systems. Chris is right when he says that cheaters will be found out eventually, and I think that the occaisional confusion is both minimal and allowable.

What it really comes down to is a matter of trust. The only way something like a fully functional L.A.R.P. can be run without a 2:1 NPC to PC ratio is if people trust one and other to play within the confines of the rules. If not, then the problem goes a lot deeper than hidden powers and disciplines.

I think what everyone does not want to see is a situation in which someone feels cheated, flies out of character, and stomps off to NPC camp to get a ruling. People are attached to their characters, and if someone were to seemingly cheat a player to death that player might react poorly both in and out of game. Perhaps some protocol for complaints might be (or already is, for all I know) established in such a way as to preserve the roleplaying experience for everyone. By and large, waiting until after the event would be prefered, but in the case of imminent death some might not be willing to put off a potentially legitimate gripe for that long. Being as my experience with this system and setting is limited, I'll appeal to the GM's for a more specific in game suggestion.

dier_cire · Post by **dier_cire** » Sat Sep 27, 2003 2:27 pm

To be honest the only gripes I have with the Aluse death is disquise issue (which is under discussion) and the complpete remembering of all things before death. There shouldn't be _any_ skill that allows for that, it's just too powerful. I won't even acknowledge the cell phone issue. It's just too stupid.

As for trusting people, well I generally don't in combat. Mainly due to the fact that people _are_ attached to their characters.

Todd · Post by **Todd** » Sat Sep 27, 2003 8:17 pm

If someone was trying to kill you, and you managed to prevent that death, would it be concidered ok for you to know the culprits? In this instance that is essentially what happened. She didnt so much 'remember' what happened, as 'lived' thru it. The Disguise issue did cause a few problems, and like you said is being worked on. And as far as not wanting to acknowledge an issue, you not only brought it up, you added an insult as well. But since you did I will ellaborate.

The mechanic was designed to make two characters sort of symbiotic. while both PC's are here, no problem. With the absence of one of the PCs, again, No problem. Any decissions are put off till the return of said PC. The snag came when it involved a 'retired' PC. One who would not be returning. When this situation occured it was brought to the attention of the portion of the plot team that was available, so a decission could be made. Believe me this was not an easy decision, and not one that should have been made on the spot by a "Lone Marshall". 3 Marshalls conveined and decided on a course of action. A few PCs, unaware that a decision had been made, tried (succesfully) to reach the PC in question. His responce was made 'Moot" by the fact that the Plot team had already decided on a course of action. The "Call" had no bairing on the situation, and a disclaimer against such actions in the future has already been made.

Hope that helps to clear the air on the situation.

Dallid · Post by **Dallid** » Wed Oct 01, 2003 3:09 pm

What's the point of playing an assassin if you're always going to get caught? I think if an assassin successfully kills a character and gets away, he should indeed get away with it. The dead should not be able to recount their last moments, sages should not be able to identify the killers through magic.

If they can, then there must also be ways for the assassins to counter such methods.