After Event Discussion: PvP

Post by **WayneO42** » Sun Sep 21, 2003 7:36 pm

Chris Wrote:

Hello all!!! Just want to thank everyone who attended the event. For the most part I feel things went well, though I am a bit miffed about missing Saturday.

Anyways, we did have a few things to discuss so lets put all comments here. As always lets be adult about people's views hehe.

Let me start with the most contraversal topic, PvP. That is right PC's killing other PC's. Now after talking with lots of people I have some thoughts on this subject and would like some feedback.

First Example:
You are walking down the path and are killed by a PC for no reason. How do you feel?

Example 2
You are walking down the path and a lion played by a PC kills you for no reason. How do you feel?

Example 3
Lets say that some humans were sleeping in the inn with you because you the barkeep sold them the room. Later that night these humans turn into werewolves and in a blood rage kill you. How do you feel?

Example 4
You invite some PC's to stay with you for the night and they kill you. How do you feel.

Example 5
You are a PC and look evil and a bunch of PC's kill you. How do you feel?

Personally I see no difference, nor feel different between any of the examples. IMO tags do not create a different emotional expierence. Yes, that includes killing for no reason. This said I dont feel NPC's should really involve themselves in PvP issues unless "rules" are obviously being broken. Also, a players motivation does not enter into a "rule breaking" event

To extend on this I have NO issue with ANY of the PC deaths this weekend since the only argument anyone can make to me is one of motivation and as I say above I really don't care about that.

I will say that if a group (good or evil) just starts killing people as they walk in the door to play the game then I would have an issue and we will hit that bridge when we cross it.

Please discuss!

Post by **Kale** » Sun Sep 21, 2003 7:58 pm

I don't see any differences. The only thing I would have a problem with would be a situation such as:

Bob plays a Paladin and has played this character for 8 events. He is one of the most noble of characters ever.

George played his Squire, who was just knighted 2 events ago. Bob and George's characters are the best of buds.

Bob finds out that the car that he bought off of George is going to need $1200 worth of work on it and George never told him.

An hour after game on, Bob finds George and executes him. (Which Bob does knowing that his character concept that he has been playing strictly for 8 events now, just got thrown out the window because he bought a lemon. [note: michigan has a no-lemon law])

I spose you'll never be able to differentiate with something like that because it would prolly never happen quite that clean, but I would just hope to never see something like that happen.

Kathryn Skress · Post by **Kathryn Skress** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 8:42 am

I have mixed feelings about PC vs PC killings. On the one hand, I think if your character is an evil bastard that goes about killing, looting, and such, and another PC catches you, you deserve what you get.

On the flip side, if you created your character with the main goal of killing other PC's for no particular reason (it's in my character history!) I'm not as keen on that. It seems two-faced maybe, but I've always been of the opinion that if a PC dies, it should be for a reason (killed by monster, they stole everyone's food, etc), not because some other PC just had to get their fix off of it.

Post by **GM_Chris** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 10:54 am

True but what if this evil bastard is running around killing NPC's too. Basically the evil bastard does not care who they kill and see's no lines drawn.

Would it make things better if all evil bastards were given perm NPC status?

Chris

Peace420 · Post by **Peace420** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 11:19 am

PvP is a part of LARPs there is a huge discussion on PvP on the LARP discussion forum. My personal feelings are that as long as the PvP is notcheese weaseled then there is no problem with PvP, there are sadistic psychopathic killers in our society why would a LARP be any different.

My definition of cheese weaseled would include:

"Oh that's my friend OOG so I won't kill them"

"I don't like them OOG so I'm gonna kill every character they play"

"My other character is friends with their character so I won't kill them"

"Hey, a newbie I know I can kill them and take all of their stuff"

Would it make things better if all evil bastards were given perm NPC status?

No because how do you determine that? Atrum won't hesitate to kill someone but he isn't a maniacal killer like say Pentaguishine is but how can you say that someone should be an NPC because they play a killer?

Post by **Kale** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 11:23 am

I hope noone thinks it is cheese, but I pretty much refuse to P-kill a newbie. It's a rule of thumb that I try to follow as best I can.

However, your 2nd event you become fair game.

Peace420 · Post by **Peace420** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 11:47 am

I am on the fence on this one, on the one hand not PK'ing a noob is probably a good idea so that they can get a feel for the game and such but if they mess up and piss of the wrong person, then it's metagaming not to do what your character would do. For instance, this event Erica (the dark elf) made the mistake of hooking up with the wrong bad guys and attacked Roland, our house head, normally I would have just killed her especially when she was giving attitude after I had not knocked her out and Roland and I were talking to her. But being a noob is the only reason she got knocked out and not backstabbed.

Post by **Kale** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 11:50 am

See, in that instance I prolly woulda ganked her. Course if I was a good guy I woulda been on the edge. I'll kill a newbie if they do something that deems killing, I just won't kill a newbie because they are silly enough to go off into the woods alone with a bag full of tokens and a magic item that I want.

Nelkie · Post by **Nelkie** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 11:56 am

I like the PvP because it brings another eliment of danger into the game. I agree with the no cheese rule.

I found my self alone with the 4 PC killers in the inn on Friday night and out of game I knew I might die. So I tried to keep the killers busy and get them to think I was useful to them. It was fun and nerve racking at the same time.

I was walking the trails looking behind me and making sure I was not alone, because I knew Brad was at the event.

PC kiling is part of the game, but there is steps to counter it.
Never go off by yourself
Get to know a character before inviting them to sleep in your guild.
Do not trust somebody new until they have proven themselves.
Etc...

Remember, we all just survied the end of the world and it is survial of the fitest. Killing is part of that.

Post by **Kale** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 12:01 pm

Just so you know Aaron, GREAT job at proving your usefullness! I was pretty disappointed that my minions couldn't see me out the window with my finger running along my throat like a hacksaw because I had just checked to see if anyone was out side.

Kathryn Skress · Post by **Kathryn Skress** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 12:09 pm

It seems like the cheese factor is the biggest concern when it comes to PC killing.

This is just an idea, but what if a PC had to report to NPC camp when they killed another PC. Not really for approval, but to give their reasoning behind it. It would seem to me that if they were unable to give a good reason off the tip of their tongue, then it might have been a cheesed killing. If it was indeed cheesed, NPC's can take it from there and take whatever steps they feel appropriate.

dier_cire · Post by **dier_cire** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 12:14 pm

Hey, we gave pretty much everone one freebie that night and the newbies sitting by themselves got overlooked a few times. There were a couple of chances where I overlooked someone specifically because I wasn't sure how they would react OOG to it. I love paying for newbies but I would prefer if they came back so eventually I won't have to pay for newbies.

As for Aaron, it's definitely a good thing we didn't see Brad, though we had to give you the same chance we gave everyone else and it was more fun to watch you try and bribe us...

Post by **GM_Chris** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 12:21 pm

I really do not want to get into moderating people's intentions for the purpose that there are phycos out there.

Alot of the times people only get half the storry and assume things that are not true. Forexample a person muight over hear a group say they wont klill a person because they are friends witht hem out of game, but not hear that they were joking.

My goal is to create a world that is as close to being in a real fantasy world it is scary. To create this players need to be in control and held accoutable. If you want to play a good character great. If you want to play a bad character great. Either or you will be held to accounts. As an npc it is my goal to bring things tword the middle.

If the town becomes too evil then you will see many good minded NPC's entering town to try and hunt down the evil. too many good people and you will see many evil people to destroy the good. I know I am doing my job when every group thinks I am constantly screwing them.

Ther trick is when does the screwing end and the reward come. Unfortunatly for evil the reward is instantaneous and the goal is to see how long you can live before dieing.

-Chris

Peace420 · Post by **Peace420** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 12:26 pm

Ther trick is when does the screwing end and the reward come. Unfortunatly for evil the reward is instantaneous and the goal is to see how long you can live before dieing.

Only if you're short sighted evil, the goal for some will be much more than living.

Post by **GM_Chris** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 12:32 pm

Nope evil will always loose at some point. The reason is evil continually makes more and more enemies until a critical mass happens. Basically the evil people always want power so whoever is the top dog power guy will get the most crap in-game.

-Chris