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we are printing lists of "current revision" and since spells must be TAGGED now, the GMs can in fact make sure who has what and track it.

Jaycen Blackhawk wrote:This is why there are problems with the spells. And Alchemy.

No it's not. The actual problem is a root design flaw that is most likely unsolvable in FH.

When we designed the game I was warned by someone to never have research in the game. I now understand why.

I will never write another game with spell research or run a magic system like FH.

Jaycen Blackhawk wrote:

dier_cire wrote:that will never happen. Spells are private per caster and will never be publicly posted. If you have a question with a specific spell send one of them a PM.

This is why there are problems with the spells. And Alchemy.

The inherent problem is that people think they know what the spells and potions do and don't read them when they use them.

personally I think crafting is FAR worse for the system than either alchemy or arcane since those have limits on what you can do at one time.

Eric and I have talked about this alot and PC's should never have the capability to research spells and potions.

What PC's can do is write suggestion and submitt them to GM's. And than the GM's balance them and if they want to, bring them into game.

All the new spell's and potions than will be handled by GM's only

that's what happens now.

Of course that is what happens now. We don't just approve any spell or potion that people want. At times we are mistaken about the power level, but nothing just gets approved without widespread agreement of both staffs.

The problem is that we are not always great at seeing the combos that are being produced, which is the reason for the research in the first place, the unmentioned combo that the player really wants. I believe Aaron was the master of this and is the reason for needing multiple GM eyes before approval.

Yeah Aaron what do you think happens now. )

As Mike said the problem is the combo's

Who me?

The difference is very little new spells would be brought into game. They would be introduced as plot rewards or show up in stores after extnesive testing. The number of new spells and potions would drop down to maybe 1 or 2 per year. Or if any at all. That is what I mean by GM controled. The PC's can't say, well I researched this, what do I get. It would be, here is an idea and than the PC would have no idea when and where or if the new spell or potion would come into game.

Basicly the spells and potions would be set and only if the GM felt new ones would add to the game, would they be released to the public.

Yes, this would remove personal spells which I do not like. Everyone knows all the spells and potions in game and cn help people understand how they are to be used.

Right now nobody has an idea what the spells do becasue people could have their own pesonal spell that does a similar effect slightly different.

Just my opinion here, but I think this is just going to devolve into a circular argument of Pro VS Against.

I'm not sure where the "combo" issue is coming in as far as Arcane spells are concerned, because it's a charged skill and you should only be able to cast one at a time?

To the best of my knowledge, I thought the staff was going back through spells and balancing them to the new formula. Also, recipe/spell tags are being collected and checked for version correctness, so this shouldn't be any more of an issue than someone (*coughsomeGMscough*) using the wrong year of the rulebook.

Now, all that being said, I think the problem came in when the game wasn't built with the balancing formula for anything already set in mind, which has created this issue here down the line. Realistically, there ARE only so many iterations of spells that can exist taking into account bonuses and penalties, but those options should still be there.

I'm also pretty sure that taking out the ability to research spells/potions and crafted items would take a huge chunk of enjoyment out of the game for a lot of people.

General Maximus wrote: Right now nobody has an idea what the spells do becasue people could have their own pesonal spell that does a similar effect slightly different.

I also like the idea that people who memorize everything in the rule book can't always plan for every single contingency against other players when there could be spells, magic items or potions in the mix.

Otherwise, the world seems kind of static and flat.

And to be fair, I'm against high-damage Arcane spells. I feel Arcane should be for purely external utilitarian purposes, while Alchemy is for self-affecting, internal effects. Crafted and Magic items should fall somewhere in the middle, with the balancing factor of combined resources, limited charges, and/or ongoing upkeep. We already have a high-damage magic damage set, it's called Empath.

I'm also pretty sure there aren't THAT many new spells going into the game in a year. Maybe 2-4 instead of 1 or 2, but that's still a far cry from a lot.

Just my two bits.

You haven't been doing this long enough so let me give you an insight into our players:

Year One: Research Basic Candle

Year Two: Research Wind Spell

Year Three: Research permanent flame candle, cannot be extinguished

Year Four: Create Super Deluxe Flame Thrower of Death

These are the combos we're talking about. The player knew they wanted a flame thrower of mass destruction in year one but that we would never approve such a thing. Thus the patience is the key...

Kalphoenix wrote:To the best of my knowledge, I thought the staff was going back through spells and balancing them to the new formula.

Are you referring to the current formula or the more recent one? The current formula isn't balanced but rather things need multiple approval which is the only real safeguard.

I think many know my feelings about this, and weirdly enough I am in full agreement with Nelkie..

And yes, some people might feel the loss of Research and the ability to make their own Recipes.. but I think without that ability research could become a tool of the GM's to introduce plot elements earlier into game. And after a year or so people wouldn't be missing the ability as much.

Also a use for research could be, that if a potion gets introduced into game lets say.. it may be an incomplete recipe so you have to research it for 2 events to get it right.. that wat it is still a personal recipe, but is better ciontrolled by the GM staff.

i would rather see this for Alchemy, Arcane and Craftsman.

And see reseacrh being used to look into in-game things between events.

Just because Im feeling saucy Im gonna throw my .02cents in the ring...

The Matrix is flawed.


The system as designed can function perfectly well. Where it lacks is having the tools in place for it to function.

Its designed to be a Farrari.. but it was assembled by Yugo.

I have no idea what you are saying but when I saw you log in I knew you were posting on this thread.

Even though I dont understand I will have to dissagree with you just so we can add drama and that you are Todd and for no other reason.