Orc boon

dier_cire · Post by **dier_cire** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 12:16 pm

A human cannot offer any resistance to a bear 4x his weight. It's like taking a 5 year old and them attempting to stop you. They'll move like a leaf in a breeze if you want them out of the way.

All races have one press, some have more. The ones with more are more capable of moving people. If you resist, you used your press (read: press is only resisted by a press), can't do it again so the orc moves past. Simple, and it follows reality (well at least more closely).

Tonia Glowski · Post by **Tonia Glowski** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 1:31 pm

Maybe some of this can be resolved if PLOT tells us what exactly a "press" is supposed to represent?

Are we talking just a push? Or are we talking full on grapple with arguably some subdual damage? Or something else?

Peace420 · Post by **Peace420** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 4:06 pm

A very large grizzly weighs approx. 800 lbs, the american squat record is 860 lbs by a man weighing less than 300. Bears also have quite abit of fat, sometimes as much as 350-400 lbs of it, but their musculature is more effecient than ours. I'm not saying that a man could out muscle a bear but he could definitely offer quite abit of resistance. Not to mention we have to consider things like vamps and were-creatures which traditionally in mythology are much much stronger than their mere mortal counterparts. I like the life resist for the simple fact that it represents exerting your physical strength and your strenght of will but mechanically either suggestion works.

Dallid · Post by **Dallid** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 4:49 pm

I'd think if one person is trying to push another out of the way, and the other is resisting, then there's got to be some grappling going on.

If someone resists the Press until he goes unconcious, then that ought to represent the stubborn defender being beaten into submission - or vise versa.

Post by **WayneO42** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 6:28 pm

Press is intended to represent a shove or push in one direction (Think shield bashing). It is not intended to represent grappling. I really dont want it to be like grappling. Its meant to be fast. I think the best fix would be to say that you can only counter a press with a press. The max number of presses a person could have (Per target) would be three (Orc Pikeman/man at arms). The first two would be free. The third would cost a LP point. The only thing that will move an Orc Man at Arms is force (ie hitting them with a weapon until they drop).

If you think that most LARP combats (including Final Haven) aren't a bunch of offensive verbals and defensive calls, then we must be playing something much different. There are multiple examples of this everytime I've been to an event and I don't see it the least bit destructive to the mood, especially when roleplayed well

Trust me, I know that LARPS are a bunch of verbals, that doesnt mean I need to like it. If it were up to me, the only calls you would ever hear are non standard damage calls. Why externally call a resist? We do it as some fruitless attempt to stop cheating. Why call damage when the weapon is just doing the minimum damage (1)? Its another fruitless attempt to make sure people dont cheat and "Take" the damage. Stopping external calls will never happen (PCs and GMs are too paranoid) but atleast we can stop people from using long strings of them.

-- and trust me, your scenario would be over in about 3 seconds.

Even if it were only three seconds, thats three seconds players are staring at each other shouting skills and picking their asses with their weapons. Thats not LARP combat to me. Thats Table top standing up.

Todd · Post by **Todd** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 6:39 pm

I think it works ok with LP expenditures. With the Press vs Press scenario, the Common Gnome, Pike-man, Man-at-arms, Guild member would have 4. But a Savage Orc could only get 3. in this scenario which one is more likely to try and break through? Besides, any Warrior who wants to block the path that badly can always go to 'Hold Ground'. You know that useless skill no one likes.

Going back to the gnome example;
Gnome in door, Orc wants thru.
Orc; "Press" (1LP) *tries to push thru*
Gnome; "counter" (1LP) *wedges himself in Doorway*
Orc; "Press" (1LP) *Grabs Gnome by head and bashes him into the jamb*
Gnome; "counter" (1LP) *Bites Orc*
Orc; "Press" (1LP) *Another bash*
Gnome; "counter" (1LP) *Another bite*
Orc; "Press" (1LP) *Attempts to throw Gnome*
Gnome; *moves i.e gets tossed*

Oddly the Orc had to spend 1 more point, but it makes for a much more cerebral engagement.

dier_cire · Post by **dier_cire** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 11:13 pm

Hold ground is still useless. You counter the presses then die. I'm right behind that bandwagon.

Here's a thought. Each person can expend up to their size category in life minus one to use press per opponent per scene since a 3 foot guy blocking a 8 ft guy is kinda silly. (thus gnomes get 0, humans get 1, and orcs get 3)

Alterantively, I'd rather just see the words added, "you may only resist press with a press". No other change. Then you'll never get into people spending more than 1 life to move someone. Spending multiple life just gets annoying on a skill that isn't meant to be very powerful.

Tonia Glowski · Post by **Tonia Glowski** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 3:34 am

In all truth... this topic is growing more and more complicated and it certainly was not my intention to create a bunch more work for the already hard working Plot team (trust me, I'm on that side with my own). If no one's persuaded at this point, I'm dropping it. It's really not that important, but if it were an easy change and an obvious imbalance (which I feel it is/was) I'd say take a look and change it if you want.

If, as Wayne says, "Press" is supposed to represent a push, I *really* don't see why one couldn't push more than once or twice, but as such, each Plot person wants a certain feel for the game and I respect that. No matter what, I'll enjoy the game just as much either way. If PLOT wants to continue this dialogue, I'm more than happy to, but I'm not going to beat a dead horse.

Can't wait til next event!

Todd · Post by **Todd** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 8:43 am

Weve definately got something to look at now. We can get together, and make a final ruling. We'll let you know what we come up with.
Unless anyone comes up with an idea besides the 3 offered here, I'd call this one closed.

(Its nice to see someone up even later than me. )

dier_cire · Post by **dier_cire** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 10:03 am

Yeah, I'd call it dead. After re-reading the press section I think the original intent may have been press can only be countered by press but was written poorly anyway.