Shelter?

Post by **GM_Chris** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 1:41 pm

I like this idea as well.

Chris

Peace420 · Post by **Peace420** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 11:59 am

As it stands there is no difference on what you need to survive between lifestyles, if you change that then you really need to look at re-balancing (which might need to be done anyway) what each lifestyle gets. Savage already gets 3 life and can get 2 resources per game session. Priviliged gets 2 resources per game session and more allegiance than savage . Hopefully it changes in the future but in the past 3 years allegiance points have been extremely worthless, and common human gets the same amount as privileged. The only reasons to be privileged is if you want a specific skill in one of the very few disciplines that are only privileged since a couple of those skills are duped or for back story which can be manipulated to fit mechanics much easier than trying to find mechanics to fit your backstory.

Post by **GM_Chris** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 12:22 pm

well I dont see how 3 years of allegiance is worthless.

Things we do want

1) No 1 guild should be self sufficient
2) A single non savage human with alot of time played say 3 years should be very valuable in the political scene. (From talks with alot of peeps this appears to be the case)
3) Guilds should specialize in resources as they grow since no guild can do it themselves. This facillitates trading.

We are working on House alliegence points to make them a bit more spread out say 12 levels of houses vrs 4 which allows alot of fine tuning.

Chris

Peace420 · Post by **Peace420** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 1:24 pm

I don't think that a guild should be self sufficient but it should be extremely hard for savage and IMO harder for common than priviledged to get to a 3rd or 4th level guild.

What I meant by worthless is that it doesn't take very much to equal the requirements for guild levels. 4 20th level savage non humans can nearly support a 3rd level guild which requires 5 people so if they have 5 then they meet the requirements easily. I'm not sure if you still only need a portion of that to maintain a guild but if so then that means that it tkaes even less than 5 non-human savage 20th level characters to maintain a guild. IMO it should be much much harder than that, the fact that 2 20th level non-savage humans can support the guild means diddly and squat since you still need the 5 people no matter what. So all those extra points are basically useless until you start forming houses and even then you don't really run into problems until you get to the highest levels and the monarchy levels.

I don't think guilds should be self sufficient even though it seems you say I do every time we talk about it.

Nothing of the sort I just think it should be easier for non-savage humans (priviledged especially even though theres no difference currently) to have higher level guilds with less people than non-human an much much easier than non-human savage.

In 3 years I've been asked for my allegiance twice even though I have more than 95% of the people on the field. Once the first event or second event when Arthos actually asked me to join Kathryn's guild.

And once recently. Until that time only a couple of people knew that I wouldn't give it anyway for IG story reasons.

Post by **GM_Chris** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 1:38 pm

Good point on the numbers.

The pay off is the 4th level guild not the 3rd level guild. Will look into that when making adjustments.

My proposed House changes will make individual alliegence much more valuable.

Also we have a couple non skill ideas for the hous which will make houses much more vaulable to go up in levels with making Houses want people even more.

Chris

Nelkie · Post by **Nelkie** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 8:31 pm

As Chris says the bonus's are in a 4th level guild and a savage non-Human guild will take years to get enough alliegence to become a 4th level guild. Typically you get enough resources to support your guild in your trade route and if you are lucky, have some left over for trading. That is between level 1-3. I have been tracking alliegnce for muliple guilds, and now a house, it is very critical for me right now how much alliegence people have. I orefer privledge peole over common and savage becasue they can bring in extra resources which helps to balance the trade routes out. So I see privledge as very important and worth while, also it makes for a great RPing thing. I guess it is all in what you are trying to achieve with ones allgience points. But right now the main problem is the peole requirement for a guild. Thats what is causing me nothing but grief.

Peace420 · Post by **Peace420** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:07 am

Priviledged gets 2 extra and most of the savage disciplines gets 2 resources.

Post by **WayneO42** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:21 am

Maybe we can give priveledge 2 primary resources (food, cloth, shelter)and 2 secondary resources (Steel, Hide).

Post by **GM_Chris** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:50 am

That adds too much to the system.

The thing is the savage still has to choose those disciplines. The privledge gets like 20 extra build points.

Chris

Dallid · Post by **Dallid** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:53 am

Not to completely change the subject - but I will - Can Hide be used as Cloth? If so, should there be an exchange rate like two Hide can equal one Cloth? In winter particularly, you need to cover nearly your whole body with multiple layers. One Cloth can do this, but to use Hide in such a fashion, perhaps a couple units worth should be required.

Post by **GM_Chris** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 2:21 pm

Well there wont be an exchange rate as you have sggested but we are looking into exchange rates put into the game..more to come on that once we hash it out, but it is looking very cool.

PLEASE no speculation until we finish

Chris

Dallid · Post by **Dallid** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 3:06 pm

Yes, basically my whole focus here is that I feel Savage characters ought to be able to survive outside a guild (on their own) quite easily. Allowing Hide to be used as Cloth and replacing Shelter with something like 'Stuff' or 'Necessities' (of which Savage should require little of) would make this a reality.

Post by **WayneO42** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 3:13 pm

I disagree with that. I think Savages still need others to survive thus the "Tribe" or "Warband". They can bring in resources through "Trade" routes though it may be role-played as raids on villages, co-ordinated hunting, etc.

Dallid · Post by **Dallid** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 5:25 pm

A Warband is formed to take things from others - get what they need through aggression. More 'civilized' Warbands might hire themselves out as mercenaries in addition to the piligin'.

Tribes are indeed formed to pool resources for obtaining food, providing defense, and generally helping each other out - though this seems to me to be getting very close to a 'Common' lifestyle.

I think a Savage ought to be able to survive on his own just fine, but would still get the advantages listed above (in addition to political clout) for joining a Guild - allowing Guilds to still be very tempting for Savages. However, lone wolf characters should be able to play that way - ie. remain independent and self-sufficient. Sure, it takes some work to get by that way, work that could be avoided by being a member of a Guild. But I can certainly see characters chosing to hunt for food and supplies on their own rather than join an existing organization.

Post by **WayneO42** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 5:34 pm

Characters can be lone wolf types and survive. They can still gain resources from plots as well as the ones they get from skills. It is much harder to do than to play a common character but IMHO it should be. In a harsh world, going it on your own should result in death atleast 80% of the time. It takes sharp wits, clever planning, and great role-playing to do but it can be done.

Shelter?

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Allgenece

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