a "small" suggestion

[dier_cire]

Rules governing what is a large weapon are already in the rules, look under phys per construction and racial sizes.

Those rules are a hold over from the Carps rulebook and basically have no real meaning in this system. Under the current system it doesn't matter what size weapon one uses. FH can make large weapons what ever they want. Heck don't those rules have bastard sword size in there? Does that count as two handed if used with two hands?

Two-handed weapons BY DEFINITION deny the use of a shield. That is why they are called two-handed weapons as opposed to two-handed-unless-its-made-of-foam-and-light-enough-to-use-with-a-larp-shield weapons

Heh, who needs hands to use a shield? None of my shields require hands. I have them strapped to my arm so tight they rarely move. This has nothing to do with the weight of the weapon... And it'd be silly to require two hands to deal the extra damage. I can already see the arguements due to that ruling...

[GM_Chris]

The druid is being adjusted.

Yes the man at arms is tough

Oh and Ka is not all that uber he is just uber in the face of all the little rogues we got.

Infact I will go out on a limb and say Ka is what we want out of warriors in FH. It is how they should be played.

Oh and the change I suggested is not a COMPLETE major change it is a small tweek that alows a person to swing extra damage if they opt to not use a shield..even one strapped to your arm.

Infact I will now lobby that any shield you simply strap to your arm will be considered a buckler and thus only takes 5 points before blowing up.

Chris

[Bob-Z (kabre)]

The nodachi was a two handed version of the Katana that was used to great effect by the bodyguards of certain shoguns, and halberds are designed with armor avoidance in mind

The size and tempering of the nodachi was designed to power through armor and destroy it, NOT find small exploitable weaknesses (which is a pretty good definition of FinalHaven's "vorpal" damage). Arrow's can easily penetrate chainmail and some plate, and can be used to select and hit small unaromored parts of the body easily. Rapiers are designed for piercing and finess which allow the same thing. I'd say I'm being the more realistic in this case.

By two handed weapon, we're mostly talking about large hammers/axes/twohanded claymore type weapons anyway.

[GM_Chris]

Well vorpal can mean alot of different things dont pigion hole yourself.

Chris

[WayneO42]

I dont like the idea of calling shields bucklers based on the way they are strapped. It adds to much complication. Just simply declare that all shields occupy the hand they are used in. The only skill that can get around this is some type of two weapon fighting skill in which we can state that they can use a buckler in conjunction with a weapon. Much easier

As far as large weapons go we can sit here and argue all day about it but none of us (Despite our own opinions) are Arms/Armour Historians. On top of that, its not really the point. In LARP, sometimes realism needs to take a backseat to playability. If we up the BASE damage of a weapon based on its size it adds several complications to the game for the general populace.

First, it requires us to classify and tag all weapons based on size. For the uninitiated this may seem like a small point but it carries alot of complications. We would need to inspect all weapon phys-reps for size catagory as well as safety, a player needs to worry about wether or not the tag they have for a weapon can be used with the phys rep they have, etc etc. To a point we are leaning towards this already with the different times for a craftsman to craft different weapons but that is something I would like to change in the off-season.

Also, adding to the base damge of a weapon goes against the philosophy of FH where anyone can pick up a weapon and do 1 damage with it untrained. Just because a weapon is bigger and heavier doesnt mean the untrained is going to do more damage with it. If you want to increase the damage then train with the weapon.

There are a few things I think we can do to make two-handed weapons more appealing . We could add to the Warrior's rage ability and allow them to swing an additional damage with a two handed weapon. So, the warrior knight can spend a life point to swing 4 with a two-handed sword. This would reduce the rule so it only applies to warriors and the fact it is coupled with rage prevents the use of other skills.

We could add to crush and state that you need to use a two handed blunt weapon to do crush. I am not too crazy about this idea (BTW: In the off season we will add to the rule book that vorpal can only be done with a bladed or piercing style weapon.)

We could add a discipline that adds a +1 to two handed weapons. I was thinking of:

Mauler - Savage, Common

Level 1: Regeneration
The mauler regenerates one extra life point.

Level 2: Resist Fear
The mauler can spend a life point to ignore the effects of any kind of fear effect.

Level 3: Batter
When using a two-handed headed weapon, the mauler can hit a target for 5 crush. This skill takes 15 seconds to charge, and a target must be chosen ahead of time

Level 4: Weapon Focus—Two Handed Headed
You get plus one damage while using any one type of Two Handed Headed weapon.

[Peace420]

I think the 2 handed weapon crush thing is an excellent idea, I never thought that someone should be able to continually swing crush with a shield and a one handed weapon anyway. Its damn hard to hit someone with a shield so the fact that they take vorpal means diddly. Implementing a 2 handed weapon requirement for crush would bring it more inline with vorpal, especially if you are gonna change vorpal to require a specific weapon type.

[dier_cire]

Actually vorpal can already only be done with edged... it's just sort of oddly placed and could be read that only if you don't have the skill. It's in Special Attacks.

Not a big fan of the buckler just because I'm not silly enough to loosely strap a shield to my arm. I do it because it makes it faster to block and more of an extension of the arm instead of some clunky garbage can lid.

I kinda like Wayne's rage bonus. I might opt to be inclined to add in that if one is a discipline with +1 damage that it can't be used in conjuntion (ie simply write that max damage is 3 (course if you add in +1 from hero points, it causes an issue)). Then the knights and others are more inclined to use their sword and shield style while the others might go two-handed (or more accurately fighting without a shield. If you want to use a single dagger and swing 3, be my guest.)

Plus the +2 rage would benefit vorpal and crush. Swinging 3 crush could be cool, but you have no defense. As well, swinging 3 vorpal would rock for an assasin but not for a combat warrior. Sort of a second bang for your buck.

[GM-Mike]

I'm not sure we as NPCs need to encourage players to use big weapons by upping the damage for several reasons that have mostly been discussed here. A big weapon, as mentioned, has its advantages built into it, specifically reach, which is valuable when standing behind people and in caves. Second, also as mentioned, it goes against the philosophy of the game and a base of two, while seemingly insignificant, quickly becomes unbalanced in combo with other skills. You would be amazed how much difference a point makes when added to the base of the weapon. Third, and I think all these points were made by Wayne but this one in particular, the issue of tags is remarkably tedious and is a complication that is generally underappreciated by the player base. In fact, in the spirit of complications, this whole discussion seems to be talking about an unnecessary complication to the system that in my humble opinion does little to the game than open an avenue for power gaming...before the backlash, in a low damage system like we have and one in which death will be more emphasized in the future (no more copping out by us), one extra point to base does make a difference.

Now for a new point not made, more close to home for me. There's no reason to promote more big weapons in game for this next reason alone. Imagine the heat of battle, you and your big weapon, pumped up at the excitement of seeing all these troops bearing down on you. You feel the energy coursing through your veins and at times perhaps fear for your life. You then, for only a few moments, begin to forget that this is just a game, you actually become this awesome warrior, ready to take on unbelievable odds and beat the snot out of the NPCs charging you. I am all for all of this up to this point. It's exciting. I get it. Now, bigger weapons are heavier and because they cannot be swung as fast, tend to be swung much harder--trust me on this I know what I am talking about, and all of them seem to be attracted to the right side of my face, not the left side, always the right side, time after time after time...well you get the idea. Anyways, why encourage the brutality of my face any more than necessary? (I am only half joking here--my left side finds it funny, my right does not )

[Bob-Z (kabre)]

I'd be much more worried about those latex swords julie swings than a big, heavy, slow, foam sword !!!

Wayne, your definition of two-handed weapon then is simply any physrep that you are using both hands with (so you can't have something like a shield of any type in use simultaneously)? So a person could theoretically use a dagger-sized physrep as long as it was used with two hands (just clarifying for myself)?

[dier_cire]

well, from past experience, I'd qualify them about the same. Aaron and I used to be pretty good at tagging people with the tips of longer weapons on a whip (since longer weapons flex quite a bit) and boy did those things sting! Julie's aren't bad once you get accustomed to fighting with only two fingers on the sword...

And don't worry Mike, no backlash.

[Claude du Sinjin]

I gotta admit though, if you've ever gotten popped by Taki when he's swinging that big as hell hammer... you know you got hit. Everyone else knows you got hit. You end up about 6ft from where you started and on the ground. Yes Jimmy, its true. Big Mutha's swinging Big Weapons will knock you on yo candy ass... it sux. But don't take my word for it, ask Kels.

[Kels]

Hey that's not nice so what if i can fly when Taki hits me with full force.



I'M SKINY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[McEwan]

Okay I feel I should clerify a bit. The objective in my mind when I started this thread was to start a spitball in hopes of incuraging a bit more diversity in FH beyond weather or not a char. has a sock on their short sword . I really did not, at any point, believe that any changes could, would, or should be made before next season. I just thought I would thro out an idea and see what everyone thought. To that end, I really like the idea of the mauler disapline(sp), I think determaning large weapon size by length may be a bit inaccurate (the "ballmauler" I pull out about once an event is shorter than a longsword, but I would like to see someone try and use it one handed).

Now to some things that may, or may not upset people. <shrug>

Other than the Roman Leagons, swords were not the primary weapon on the battle field. Peons and commoners were given long sticks and told to stand in a line, and the warriors mostly used axes and maces. Swords were mainly the "Oh shit!!!" back-up weapon. Here I would like to point out that durring the invasion of Briton in 1066 the first battle was decided by Harold's axemen and the last battle was decided by William's bowmen. (not really relivent here, but I would hate to see all that money I spent on History classes go to waist ).

A shield wall is not always there and without one the whole reach thing is pretty mutch moot. When I'm my most egomaniacal I consider myself an average combatant, but I hate to say (minus ankle-bitting {which I think is dangerous and cheese, pure cheese and nothing but cheese}) one on one I can shred 80% of the players if they use a large weapon and I go sword and board.

Now for headshots (and baseball bat swings for that matter). People we have to watch ourselves on this! last event I was taking so many shots to the head I was starting to visualize shield-punching some of you. Would I ever do that? NO, but but getting baseballed in the side of the head with a staff is not fun, not even a little.

Okay /rant_off

I hope I haven't upset anyone too mutch. I would just like to see a bit more diversity out there on the field...well I would like to have a Hackmaster +12 too, but...

[Donovan Thynedar]

Quick addendum for Kels and Sethreal: The blows that sent the two of you sprawling were nowhere near full force. I have never, in any instance, even pretended to swing a foam weapon with full force, nor do I ever intend to do so.

[Kels]

i know that it was not at full force like i said...
I AM SKINNY!!!!!! so you could swing less than half force and still send me into flight...