Shatter: Structure Damage

[Vivac]

Shatter and Magic Shatter now have the option to charge 90 seconds and then call "One Structure Point".

At the last Winter Haven I used this and was told I couldn't swing it through a fist like regular Shatter, and that I couldn't walk with it once charged.

Neither of these issues are covered in the skill description and I would just like clarification

[Ark]

I used this and was told I couldn't swing it through a fist like regular Shatter

BWAH? literally everything goes through a fist as that's the same as holding the packet.

wow yeah I can understand the problem, clarification needed indeed.

[Kaylan Chargeender]

actually...literally everything does NOT go through fists. there are several combat skills that do not.

[GM-Phil]

Vivac - this is covered in another thread - but only the Empath Shatter skill can charge 90 seconds to do "1 Structure Point"

You may use a fist to do it as it can be a packet driven skill. The not able to walk came from a version we had previously written up before it made it into the book ,where you could not move after charging it. As of right now the version in the book does not have that restriction and you should play it as written.

[Zydana]

Packet driven skills may also be delivered via a fist unless stated otherwise in the skill.

Rulebook - Page 112

Shatter –LP Skill, Reload Skill, Charged Skill An Empath is able to summon forth the energies required to shatter weapons, armor, and shields. The Empath must spend 1 Life Pointandthen throw a packet, calling "Shatter." This skill has a 10 second reload.Alternatively, the Empath can use this skill to destroy items. To do so, the Empath must charge this skill for 90 seconds, hit the target with a packet or weapon, and call “1 Structure Point.” (This Structure Point damage has no effect on Buildings).See Structure Points on page83

Rulebook - Page 17

Charge-up Skills Some types of skills require intense amounts of concentration to use properly. These skills have a set amount of time that the character must spend either studying the intended target or summoning the energy forth in order to use them, during which time the character must remain still and not move. Because of the needed concentration, being struck by a weapon, fist or packet (this includes your shield
106being struck) or intentionally prodded in some other manner while charging or prior to using the skill causes the skill to be lost and the Charge-up time to reset. Also, performing actions that are obviously not related to the task at hand such as sleeping, eating, lying down, etc.will also disrupt a skill. These skills cannot be used in conjunction with other non-passive skills. While charge times for skills can be modified through items, magical effects, and Empirical Enhancements, normal charge times cannot be reduced below a 2 second charge time.

Rulebook - Page 105-106

I will half agree with Phil. There is nothing permitting you to walk with this while it's charged. However, it looks like you CAN deliver it through a fist. If Phil told you this at the last Winter Haven, then Phil was making a field call. However, if it is the intention of the GMs to not make this skill available to be delivered through a fist, then they would need to make the proper amendments/announcements.

[GM-Phil]

By the wording of the skill Angie, it does not state that you cannot walk once this skill is charged - therefore currently you may charge the skill and then walk somewhere to deliver it. You obviously cannot walk WHILE charging the skill, but once charged may move freely.

The Fist portion is in the rules, so that is a non-issue

[Vivac]

Thanks for the replies and Sorry Phil my mistake on Magic Shatter!

[Zydana]

Okay, Phil posted while I was still typing that last post and clarified.

The not able to walk came from a version we had previously written up before it made it into the book ,where you could not move after charging it. As of right now the version in the book does not have that restriction and you should play it as written.

Phil, you can't move after charging it because you can't move after charging a Charge-Up skill.

If an empath decides to use the skill for the structure point damage, the skill because a Charge-Up skill that they need to charge for 90 seconds.

Charge-up Skills Some types of skills require intense amounts of concentration to use properly. These skills have a set amount of time that the character must spend either studying the intended target or summoning the energy forth in order to use them, during which time the character must remain still and not move. Because of the needed concentration, being struck by a weapon, fist or packet (this includes your shield
106being struck) or intentionally prodded in some other manner while charging or prior to using the skill causes the skill to be lost and the Charge-up time to reset.

The "prior to using the skill" wording there is the important part. You can NOT walk after charging up a skill UNLESS IT SAYS SO IN THE SKILL. Both Healing and Channel give permission to walk with the charged skill right in the skill wording (although there's limitations stated in the channel skill).

Because shatter DOES NOT say you can walk with it after it's been charged, you can't.

[GM-Phil]

By that definition then a Rogue may not move after charging a Critical Strike - as it does not say they can move after charging.

That is not the intention of Charge up skills at all - The intention was for you to not be able to move while charging - after you are charged you may move freely, unless the skill says otherwise (like it does in Channel after you charge up more than 15 magic) - It states that you lose your charge if you are struck or intentionally prodded, it does not say anything about not being able to move after charging.

If this is an issue multiple people are having (I have never heard of it till now) - then we will need to look at clarifying the verbage on Charge skills then.

[Zydana]

Bwahahaha!! Sucks to be a Rogue!

The way I explained is the way I've been doing it for the last few years, which also means Craftsman armor repair, transfusion and Essence Restore are skills that don't allow a player to move during or after charging.

So yes, clearly something needs to be modified.

[GM-Phil]

I would like to take a pulse, but I think you may be one of the few that play them that way. As I said, I have never heard of this confusion before. The most common problem we have is people charging while moving.

I will put it on the edit list to look at.

Plus taking a pulse to see if this is a larger, but unknown issue.

[Kaylan Chargeender]

being struck by a weapon, fist or packet (this includes your shield being struck) or intentionally prodded in some other manner while charging or prior to using the skill causes the skill to be lost and the Charge-up time to reset.

You are disrupted if your get poked...not if you walk after. I think the only exception is the 60 second empath channel...

Channel – Charged Skill
...... If this skill is charged for greater than fifteen seconds, then the Empath may not move after charging. ......

there may be others but I know this one limits movement...always has.

[Zydana]

I agree with the (greater) channel part. Yes, that's how it's always been. I'm pretty sure the same is with the empath's sleep skill.

However, there's a lot of iffy points in the description of a Charge Up skill.

There is nothing in the charge-up skills rule stating that you can walk or move freely after something is charged.

To add to the confusion, there are also skills that state you can walk after charging the skill, skills that say you can't walk after charging the skill, and skills that don't say either way.


There is good argument for both sides so I'm glad this is being looked at behind the curtain

[Kaylan Chargeender]

However, there's a lot of iffy points in the description of a Charge Up skill.

There is nothing in the charge-up skills rule stating that you can walk or move freely after something is charged.

Correct, nothing in there says you can. It states specifically what the limitations, and since movement isn't one listed...you can move. Would it be a good idea to say...AND you can move after charging unless the skills says no you cant....maybe.

To add to the confusion, there are also skills that state you can walk after charging the skill, skills that say you can't walk after charging the skill, and skills that don't say either way.

I have only found skills that specify when your CANT move after charge.