RULES! (No Really)

[GM-Mike]

Quick casting and hero points can impact reload times, as of this moment. I've heard from about half the GMs and thus far it is unanimous.

[GM-Taki]

Quite to the contrary, Scott, please continue telling what you do and don't like. We're interested in hearing all sorts of feedback on the changes - both good and bad. We'll be playing with the rules over the year and making changes at the end of the season if we see a better way to do things. Playtesting will expose some things as bad ideas and reveal other things as great ones, but we're committed to making the game better.

I'm going to echo Mike here and say that these changes came about as the result of the entire GM staff from both Final Haven and Winter Haven responding to the comments we've heard from players over the years. This is a community, and while no one is going to get everything they want, the final product of this system is a collaborative effort. We've been seeking recommendations and incorporating them for months now, and that process doesn't stop with this release.

All we ask is that you be as specific as possible with your objections, and when feasible, offer alternate mechanics that address the problems you see. Saying "I don't like it" or "it's broken/stupid/weak" is fine, but we'll need more information if we're going to see your point of view and implement a fix.

So please, keep the comments coming. It will only make the end product better.

[Abaddon]

mike,
I'm going to need to quit fixing all my complaints right away and taking the wind out my sails every time I get mad.

[Ark]

I do like most of what I see but I have a few nit picks.

-the amount of permanent life point cost abilities is increasing and I have a personal stigma against that mechanic.

-it still requires 3 THREE (three) !3! separate skills at all levels (basic, advanced, and master) to get someone out of negative 11+ and that is just silly, I can understand having both first aid and surgery, but requiring a third for just inbetween them has always been silly and I was really hoping this would be fixed.

-PM sent to you mike on broken combination.

-Vlakyn'Vi does seem to have been beaten with a stick slighty. . .don't really see why, disenchant and dodge don't really make sense and it feels more like those skills had to be in a discipline somewhere so the just got thrown into Valkyn'Vi.

[ollie]

I'm not saying that the decision or the actual crafting of this current iteration of the rules was actually done on a whimsical choice. It just felt that the decision and total execution of implementing felt a little out of left field. Wasn't it a year or so ago that the rumors of a rules change were quelled only to have this change pop up?

To echo ark, which feels weird, I gotta agree on the life point burn skills. I'd love to see them possibly changed to essence point burns if anything.

And completely agree on the valkynvi discipline. The whole thing feels forced.

[GM-Mike]

I hear ya. Just to clarify, a while ago, myself, my brother, and a few others were working on an entirely new game system, which is what we were assuring everyone about. We eventually stopped working on that system and the better parts of it were stolen and turned into Waypoint (Sorry Kiel, couldn't help myself )

Honestly, players finally got on me enough, chastising me for my stubborness to refuse to ever change any rules, that finally wore me down to take a look, but as I said, if I was going to work on these rules again, then there were a lot of things that I actually did want to change and would want to look at everything if we were going to do this. Because it is a lot of work and life is complicated and all of that, so a firm commitment was going to be needed if it was going to get done and I didn't want to nitpick at little changes for the next years because that drags you down, so for me, it was an all or nothing proposition. So I guess what I'm saying is: this is all their fault, this is what they get

I mention all of this simply because this is a transparency forum and that's what transparency is all about.

We really do appreciate all the feedback so we can get this thing to be the best it can be. I'm hearing everyone about the valkyn'vi and life point skill concerns. We will process these and see what we come up with.

Thanks!

[GM-Mike]

We will be adding a 2 Sleep as an Essence Boon, probably with a ten second charge.

[Ark]

I would like to say my overall opinion of the new rules is that I am glad about the majority of changes, so take my nit picks for what they are, just poking at the still awkward and less then desirable skills.

[Zydana]

Since I haven't mentioned it yet, I dislike the removal of personal income. I understand that it (hopefully) will make check-in times drastically decrease which has been a huge complaint over the years.

I worry that too much emphasis will be put on going out and killing things will be a huge source of income. I worry that players like me, who are not as combative-seeking, who either like to hang back at the inn and role play or don't jump as quick as possible to the front of the loot line will be ... well, a bit neglected when it comes to getting a bit of coin too.

Yes, it's far easier on a NPC/GM to make a bundle of baddies, make some trouble and then pass out loot when the heroes slice them to pieces. Yes, I understand those non-combative types are in the minority, but they should have opportunity to earn a bit of coin too - for a potion, item, or simply to buy a drink at the inn. I hope you challenge yourselves to be creative and find ways for those who stay behind at the inn, while the others venture off to battle, to earn a bit of treasure as well.

I wouldn't mind something similar to what was going on when I started playing in 2004 - you get a few resources at game on depending on your lifestyle. I think my character at the time was privileged and I was given the choice of 3 common resource tags, or 1 rare (mystic or steel) and 1 common (everything else) - I'm not 100% sure on those specifics. It doesn't really matter to me if you factor in odd things like character level and whatnots. It doesn't matter to me if you went to a system where we randomly pull one resource out of a bucket as part of check in and nothing else (such as level, lifestyle or perks) will give us better odds in getting what we get in a random pull. At least way we get something we somehow got between events, in which we can save, sell, barter, or somehow consume... but at least it would be something.

As of right now, the idea of a lack of income scares me.

[Malachi]

In regard to Discipline Swap Out Skills, can a player purchase both? For example, if I wanted to take both 'Acquire' and 'Flee' from Avyana, could I purchase both at 20 points apiece, assuming Avyana was my first Discipline? Or can you only ever have one or the other at any given time?

[Malachi]

Sorry, found another one.

The 'Unarmed Fighting Skill is written as follows:

This skill allows a player to wield 2 short sized or smaller fists. While using fists, a shield may not be used. Fists cannot be disarmed. If a player has Unarmed Fighting twice they may block with claws/fists.

Does this mean that instead of only needing a Level 1 and Level 2 Skill to fight and block damage with fists/claws, they now need 2 Level 2 skills from different Disciplines, or was this a typo?

[Ark]

Sorry, found another one.

The 'Unarmed Fighting Skill is written as follows:

This skill allows a player to wield 2 short sized or smaller fists. While using fists, a shield may not be used. Fists cannot be disarmed. If a player has Unarmed Fighting twice they may block with claws/fists.

Does this mean that instead of only needing a Level 1 and Level 2 Skill to fight and block damage with fists/claws, they now need 2 Level 2 skills from different Disciplines, or was this a typo?

this really worried me too.

[Joe]

so I was curious what benefit is there to having disenchant twice if any?

[Abaddon]

i don;t know about anyone else but with out the income issue. (magic upkeep) I don;t have to go go do anything. Every event was 40 hours of looking for MC. I can dig it.

[GM-Mike]

We have plans to compensate for no income between events besides just fighting stuff, as we are aware we have players who are not into that. The ultimate goal is to bring the whole economy on stage instead of off as it is now. Now, to be honest, I am still working on the 'Kami' problem and getting her income due to her particular social awkwardness but hey, we're nothing if not creative.

There is no advantage to having disenchant twice.

I will get back to you on the other questions--lack of sleep is clouding my brain and we had several different and opposing discussions on those things.