open discussion about the role of the warrior (in FH)

[Ark]

this is a long standing issue of mine and personal as it was the first path I played in FH (as I am sure it was for many people actually)

I think its a common first place for a lot of people to start because its a very safe things to play, and fairly simple. you give a person some soak, a pointy thing that goes into the other man, and remind them to say "1" when they hit anything. after they die or understand how the game plays a little more they will then decide what they feel comfortable playing. I mention this all specifically because one of the reasons some paths are looked at and others are not is by the amount of people playing them. however I would argue that FH and WH have a very small player base and thus using this as a point of argument is pretty poor.

but I digress.

what I was curious about is what fellow players feel a warrior should do?

as I feel this is the absolute core of what is wrong with the warrior path, nobody said "this is what they should do, how they should play, etc. lets make it happen and design around this idea"

do they do damage? if so what kind? melee, ranged, spike, constant, etc.? or do they not do damage? if so how do they make up for this?

do the tank? if so how? by having lots of soak? by mitigating damage with skills? by completely negating damage with skills?

are the mobile? are they immobile? can they chase people, or stop people from getting away? or are they easy to avoid and run away from?

do they have crowd control? can they keep the attention of monsters or prevent them from attacking their allies?

as it stands right now warrior has its hands in a lot of pies, and does not do any of them well, nor do I believe it should. but I do feel it needs a clear design idea and be built around that core idea.

right now at this moment the BASE path of warrior has only 12 skills (like any other path)

-) 5 are soak skills granting extra soak (combat reflexes x3, vigor x1, fortitude x1)
-) 3 are exclusive skills that cannot be used while another is active (hold ground, defensive matrix, rage)
-) 2 require you to be in negatives (determination, endurance)
-) and finally 2 are resist style skills that in most cases cannot be used while the only other usable skills in warrior are being used (parry and sure footed)

It is not my place to decide what warrior should do, I am not the creative director for FH (does FH have one?) I am not the person that says, "this is what it should do, this is the role of this path, these are the pros, these are the cons, now lets build around this idea" but I do feel warrior and some other paths would really benefit from this kind of direction, instead of 20 people that all have there own ideas of what something should do suggesting skills and those getting haphazardly thrown into a frankenstein of a path (warrior)

that said, I would love to hear from 20 people that all have there own ideas of what warrior should do what they feel warrior should do? XD XD

-Ark

[Kaylan Chargeender]

I think the cause of your frustration is that you think the warrior has a "role"[like many MMPOGs cram them into] rather than being a mindset.

do the tank?

Yes

if so how?

Yes

by having lots of soak?

Yes

by mitigating damage with skills?

Yes

by completely negating damage with skills?

Yes

are the mobile?

Yes

are they immobile?

Yes

can they chase people, or stop people from getting away?

Yes

or are they easy to avoid and run away from?

Yes

do they have crowd control?

Yes

can they keep the attention of monsters or prevent them from attacking their allies?

Yes

They do all these things and none of them depending on the INDIVIDUAL CONCEPT. The Guthrie archers are every bit warriors as Kaylan, and have very, very different methods of being warriors.

I would think your frustrations would vanish once you let go of the pre conceived, video game ensue paradigm seem you have.

[Faust]

I think that that's a very good point. Warriors do seem to be lacking a specific role. I happen to be the kind of person who likes as much choice as possible when creating a character. So I actually really enjoy the fact that a warrior can fill out a lot of different roles. (Looking at FH with a hint of WoW or DnD 4.0) I think the only problem with this is that they are the ONLY class that can tank at the moment which pigeon holes them into the role, when they should feel the freedom to play a mainly damaging class, who instead of having to charge just puts out a lot of damage similar to a DPS type in a video game, or anything else they set their mind to I suppose.

I think the disciplines give players a lot of freedom to many different kinds of characters no matter what their path is. I would actually like to see more people taking advantage of this freedom and force themselves into one role.

I also have very mixed opinions as I'm both an avid WoW player who loves my roles and the player in DnD who wants to do everything. Eh.

[Ark]

thank you Faust that was a good read.

I would say something akin to warriors are not the best at what they do, they are simply the least worst at it. as I outlined above they loose 5 skills to soak (almost half their path) 3 skills that only 1 may be used at a time, 2 that require you to be in negatives to take effect, and finally 2 usable skills. this means warrior has 2 skills to use available to them in any combat assuming they are in defensive matrix, hold ground, or rage.

does anyone else find that annoying? that the main combat path has only 2 usable skills in combat (both defensive I might add) once again assuming they are in defensive matrix, hold ground, or rage.

my point: the creative director of FH needs to decide what a warrior is in FH, and the design team builds skills to fit the idea. instead of hundreds of people that all have there own ideas trying to do everything.

[Kaylan Chargeender]

I would say something akin to warriors are not the best at what they do, they are simply the least worst at it.

I see tons of proof of that every time a warrior PC fights a bad guy in the mannerist crafted to. It ALWAYs a disaster.

as I outlined above they loose 5 skills to soak (almost half their path)

you don't lose a skill that's used EVERY COMBAT.

3 skills that only 1 may be used at a time

uhm...so what...and every path has that.

2 that require you to be in negatives to take effect

THANK GOD... since they have saved Kaylan's hide, while he was saving the hides of other PCS mind at that, at least a half dozen times....

and finally 2 usable skills

All but one skill I can think of are usable and get used, so I am unsure what game you play when attending events.

this means warrior has 2 skills to use available to them in any combat assuming they are in defensive matrix, hold ground, or rage.

Really, because I have access to all of mine when playing Kaylan....must be a dwarf thing.

does anyone else find that annoying?

Likely just the ones that share your faulty paradigm on the topic.

my point: the creative director of FH needs to decide what a warrior is in FH, and the design team builds skills to fit the idea.

Looks like they have, you just don't like it.

instead of hundreds of people that all have there own ideas trying to do everything.

I think that is the whole point, making the warriors structure usable for many concepts. All the evidence shows they did a great job, since they get used in so many different ways.

If you think the warrior is sooo broke, how about you make we arrange to let you make a wizard, rogue, sage, and healer with the same build Kaylan had in the cave of ancients and select a few goodies from the advanced crafted item list. then you can use them to fight the "elven king" that Kaylan faced off against and see how they do in protecting the other PCs that were there?

There may be individual skills that could be tweaked, but you keep seeing broken where it does not exist.