Mind Magic

[GM_Chris]

I have a question on how people see mind magic. We don't really have anything like it at Final Haven but the genre seems to have a mixed feeling on it.

For example: Charm tends to be universally seen as something supernatural. In contrast something like psionic blast is seen as non magical in D&D but is magical in something like Mage the Ascension. Then you have pseudo mystical powers like the ability to overcome injury and fight on as seen in the oriental genre. Then you have things like levitate that go both ways.

What are your thoughts?

[Marcus]

I see it as something that is wonderfully up to the players to determine as a character-by-character basis. When I use Charm: Calm or Charm: Soothe as Marcus I am basically it as projecting the power of his Will, which is sort of mind magic when you get to the nitty gritty of it. I don't see it as "supernatural" in his case at all, though it might be very closely linked with the supernatural world. Some Wizard spells would fall into thsi category, too.

Heck, especially with most of these skills that might be "mind" powers, coming after the rewrite, maybe it's something new showing up on Phanterra, or as some of the theories are that we are in a new divergent reality after the rewrite (as to explain why older character's skills suddenly changed) it's something long forgotten that is being re-emergent.

Soothe, especially when used on frightened NPC's is him using a sort of "power of empathy" to show them that he feels everything is alright, and as such, so should they.

Charm: Calm when I use it is more like dulling their senses so their blows lose force, or perhaps to some NPCs it would actually be lessening their combat effectiveness by making them so uneasy that they don't fight at peak effectiveness. For instance - a predatory animal plans on it's victim being afraid of it. When you stand your ground and fight, especially backed up by an aura of enforced willpower, they don't know quite what to do, and it distracts them.

I also have "Repel". I see that turning back things that are supernatural because you are overpowering them with your willpower, and forcing them to loose hold on what they feed off of for support. Banish doubly so, to the point that they are destroyed completely by removing their ability to hold their form on Phanterra.

[Ark]

I tend to think that most magic comes from the mind, you focus your mind to gather the essence of the world around you and form a channel. its usually very clear if something is physical or magical in nature.

if your reffering to an FF7 style of floating, or crouching tiger hidden dragon. i would say that is as close as you can get to a mix of the two, but i would consider that as its own thing (ki) as that has its own ideas attached to it (floating, gliding, water walking, etc.)

[Marcus]

Technically... going by the "Metaphysics of Phanterra" part of the World Guide, all Healing abilities and Empathic magic is basically "Mind magic" with how it interacts with the target.

Off the top of my head, things I would see as being a result of powers of the mind that we already use currently, or at least which can be roleplayed as some sort of Psionic power by a player:

-All the various charms charms
-All levels of Seer (Visions, Probe Mind, Special hero point skill etc)
-Mimic, Sage Buffs, and the various forms of Recall
-Magic fear
-Empath's Magic Disease
-Curse
-Sense and Greater Sense Magic
-Banish
-Repel
-The Valken'Vi reset skill

So I think there is already multiple instances of heroes being able to interact with the Phanterran world by using their abilities of the mind, in addition to the "normal" ways of tapping onto the underlying supernatural world to access more mundane (as it were) magics.

[Wyrmwrath]

Charm tends to be universally seen as something supernatural.

By this your implying powers of the mind ARE NOT supernatural in your view yes?

In contrast something like psionic blast is seen as non magical in D&D but is magical in something like Mage the Ascension.

D&D actually lets the GM chose either depending on the flavor he/she wants to add.
In Mage the Ascension it was likely designed that way to keep it in the hands of the mages, otherwise players might have Jean Grey-esque vamps, lycans, hunters, changelings, etc...

Then you have pseudo mystical powers like the ability to overcome injury and fight on as seen in the oriental genre.

These arent just in the oriental genre, they just have differing "mythos" and visual effects, especially since some genre heroes can shoot fire balls or lightening like a typical mage.

Then you have things like levitate that go both ways.

Which way any fantasy skill that doesnt mimic real world abilities can go either way IF the fantasy world physics supports it, which is up to the game designers.
Psionic/chi type powers can add a cool alternative to the "mage" archtype, and interesting depth for warrior types doing the "shou lin monk" thing.
Nothing says that an effect (charm, kinetic blast, telepathy, pyrokenetics, healing...) has to be one or the other, as both have mythos based mechanics that are logical and can fit with other game world powers.
IF your using two sources...magic...and will/psionics/chi, the designer DOES need to be very clear on how they interact with each other. Such as can magic break a will/psionics/chi charm effect, or can a will/psionics/chi pyrokenetic be stopped by fire control magic.
I personally dont like Chi/martial arts in my fantasy (LOTR/D&D) world setting because it feels very anachronistic (unless its source is some small and hard to reach island/valley that is used to add freshness to plot and stories). But then I am old school gamer dude, the younger gens seem ok with blending different mythos COS play style.

Hope that answers your question.

[cole45]

why can't interrogator be casting spells when he plants suggestion?

its all on you.

[GM_Chris]

He could be

[Marcus]

I personally love the fact that nearly all of the skills other than raw combat skills can be interpreted and role-played by any player to make their character unique within the same ruleset, be it Psionic or supernatural.

And I've seen many instances where the character base accepted another character using the powers of their mind, all the way back to Eilonway being the first seer in the group.

For instance, Marcus Gideon has to this date never once used a mundane healing tool/procedure. It's all been supernaturally magical healing in the "laying on of hands" variety.

He's just now learning from Fionna and the Wood Elves of the Witchwood about the methods of using poultices and bandages, to supplement his internal strength after long periods of intense healing leave him flagging.

[Dallid]

Dallid started with catgut, leeches, and bandages and later graduated to 'essence healing'. Everything can be interpretted by your RP.

It's been cool to see some characters refuse to be healed by magical means - seaking healers who RPed their abilites through more mundane means, instead. Same abilities RPed differently often evoke different reactions/results.

I've always loved it when Mike would ask "How does your Scouting/Recall/Visons work?" Based on my reasoning, I might get no information while someone else with the same ability (but differet RP)would get critical information, or vise versa.

It also brought a smile to my face when I'd hear one PC tell another "Don't let Amagus raise me again."

[Ark]

I personally love the fact that nearly all of the skills other than raw combat skills can be interpreted and role-played by any player to make their character unique within the same ruleset, be it Psionic or supernatural.

this

could not have put it more clearly.