Balanced Blade?

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:51 am

Just a basic thought.

Ok, so a curved dagger obviously has to be a dagger, and assumedly a balanced blade has to be some sort of sword/dagger.

What if Balanced "Blade" became a Balanced "Weapon", to reflect that people with Critical Strike can take various types of Weapon Focus skills?

Of course, would it be game breaking if a 'Curved dagger" became a "Barbed Weapon" or something, with the same size restriction, to represent a vicious hand-axe (for example)?

cole45 · Post by **cole45** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:56 am

I'd like to see all weapon specific effects and items become "melee" weapon.

(just my opinion.)

Wyrmwrath · Post by **Wyrmwrath** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 2:00 pm

while i generally agree, i have always liked game effects based on weapon type since it ads so much more to the front line fighter combat experience. Adds realism that a one weaponwarrior wont alwas be max effective if he swings a hammer and needs a blade against some foes and visa versa.
I like that poison only works on blades and crush only with blunt. its logical and realistic. Id love to see a FH version of a crush/sever limb skill. Last system it was two seperate skills, crush made the limb unusable but healable, sever meant it had to be regrown. In game down side is if yur trying to capture, sever blows since they would go into a bleed out instantly( I would suggest no way to cauterize to prevent sever using warriors from skirting the intentional drawback)
Curved blade seems sensable to have both ways if logic is stretched, balanced doesnt based on description. Both are really all about enhancing crit attack, which is...lets face it... a blade based skill. Blunt weapons just do not function in a manner that truthfully makes them suitable for a skill like crit. They would be awesome for a stunn/knockdown skill or even great for disarm. Why not make curved and balanced crit enhancers when used on blades, and add to balanced to make a blunt weapon enhance press or disarm somehow. Maybe a curved blunt version (lets call it "studded weapon") lets rage or crush users do a 2 or 3 crush for 5 to 7charge time.

NPC Christen · Post by **NPC Christen** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 3:38 pm

It's always been a wording issue that was meant to be fixed AGES ago...

They're all blade, really. The item description itself does not restrict the size of the weapon, just the name of the thing, which is irrelevant anyway.

They have ALWAYS allowed them both to be weapons of any size, so long as they are bladed.

Post by **GM-Taki** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 3:48 pm

A note on size restrictions - the description for both the Curved Dagger and the Balanced Blade state that they "can only be a Small or Tiny size weapon". Since our rules don't list a "Small" size category, I've asked and had it clarified that "Small" currently equates to the "Short" category and applies to blades less than 36' in length. While that leaves a great deal of latitude for players in the shortsword realm, it also means these items can't be used with a longsword or pike physrep.

Wyrmwrath · Post by **Wyrmwrath** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 3:48 pm

eyup....just meant it would be cool to have blunt weapon versions of those items...

Post by **GM-Taki** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 3:52 pm

I agree, Brian. I'm not sure if having a "Crush" addendum is balanced, but I'd certainly be open to seeing equivalent items for blunt/headed weapons. Ranged would likely be another matter, but there's no reason we couldn't come up with some bow/crossbow appropriate exotic items as well.

NPC Christen · Post by **NPC Christen** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 3:53 pm

Because of the nature of how the items work, I believe that is why they are restricted to bladed. However, I'm sure one could research a blunt equivalent.

Thanks for the size correction, Taki!

Wyrmwrath · Post by **Wyrmwrath** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 4:23 pm

bow/crossbow version should require a green costume and membership in the Justice League.....just sayin...

GM-Amanda · Post by **GM-Amanda** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:16 pm

I thought you were going to say green outfit and a small annoying fairy physrep... >.>

I was considering a few blunt weapon modifiers, but I ran into two problems - first, all of the names I thought up would make most of us giggle inappropriately, and second, the only skill I can think of that is similar to crit strike is the 5 crush Druid totem. I don't think either weapon focus or Barbarian Crush need any help, but I don't think the bonus should be only availably through one level 4 skill.

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:07 pm

Curved blade seems sensable to have both ways if logic is stretched, balanced doesnt based on description. Both are really all about enhancing crit attack, which is...lets face it... a blade based skill. Blunt weapons just do not function in a manner that truthfully makes them suitable for a skill like crit.

I;m sorry, but how is critical strike a "blade based skill"? If I a wielding a hammer, I can't ever take my time to find a weak spot in a guys defenses to do more damage? That's all Critical strike is- a well-calculated attack that does more damage.

That's the whole point of the game- personal interpretation. A Rogue might shiv a guy in the back with a sword, but my Paladin swings an overwhelmingly large attack with his hammer when he sees an opening. Same mechanic, different roleplaying.

I see no need for two exotic items to only be that extra bit useful for Knights, Dwarves, and Warriors, alone.

A balanced blade says right in the description that it's meant to be balanced for premium dexterity enhancement. That could be an extra quality for any kind of weapon that can fit the size. A well-balanced mace could let the wielder maneuver and better change directions while swinging it it with more speed.

A curved blade maximizes it's deadliness. Why can't that also be jagged saw edges on an orc's axe, or barbed punching spikes on a hammer?

Wyrmwrath · Post by **Wyrmwrath** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:30 pm

I;m sorry, but how is critical strike a "blade based skill"? If I a wielding a hammer, I can't ever take my time to find a weak spot in a guys defenses to do more damage? That's all Critical strike is- a well-calculated attack that does more damage.

Because its a skilled based off the original concept of the rogue jamming a blade into vital spot ALA sneak attack. Though that was fairly obvious...

That's the whole point of the game- personal interpretation. A Rogue might shiv a guy in the back with a sword, but my Paladin swings an overwhelmingly large attack with his hammer when he sees an opening. Same mechanic, different roleplaying.

No the whole point of the game is role playing, not making clumsy stretches at logic to justify using skills very obviously counter to the nature of a skill...even if its allowed. Am I suggesting you not do it? no. In FH combat a PC concept geared towords combat has to work with what the system offers. That doesnt mean the player can see the weak stretch of a blunt weapon used for crit strike. Dont take it personal, Kaylan has the skill and uses a hammer, doesnt mean I will ignore the thinly veiled stretch.

I see no need for two exotic items to only be that extra bit useful for Knights, Dwarves, and Warriors, alone.

Just because you dont see it doesnt mean it would be a neat addition, nor does it mean its not fitting. Especialy since the curved dagger....is a dagger not a hammer or mace or club ...

A balanced blade says right in the description that it's meant to be balanced for premium dexterity enhancement. That could be an extra quality for any kind of weapon that can fit the size. A well-balanced mace could let the wielder maneuver and better change directions while swinging it it with more speed.

so your argument is that balanced BLADE coulde be a mace? The notion behind the skill as shown by the name and the description and weapon size restriction clearly shows its intended to be fine agile weapon for percise strikes. Thats the antithisis of a blunt weapon (except MAYBE a staff)

A curved blade maximizes it's deadliness. Why can't that also be jagged saw edges on an orc's axe, or barbed punching spikes on a hammer?

because an axe doesnt rely on dexterity, its about mass and a smoothe cutting edge( serations would actually REDUCE its effectivness); and hammers dont have spikes, cause then they are morning stars...not hammers.

Ark · Post by **Ark** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:23 am

*notices poo flying fanwards and decides to chime in*

i dont care about the "blade, blunt, etc." notion of the items, i could care less as long as your not trying to break something.

i do care about the "size, length" of the item, especially the ones that increase damage, as long as its "tiny, short, etc" i could care less what it looks like.

GM-Phil · Post by **GM-Phil** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:17 am

Just for ntoe - if someone came to NPC camp and asked if they could have a Balanced blade exotic item made as a hammer instead of a dagger and it fit into the size requirements, I would be surprised if any GM said they could not do it.

I would be fine with changing the name to Curved/Balanced Weapon - the mechanics stay the same and it lets someone continue with their RP idea for a character - causes no issues I could see in game.. so let it be.

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:17 am

If that's the case, then many of the things that use "short" are way too long.

I would suggest "small being added, and short being slightly changed, so it would be:

Tiny: 12-18
Small: 19-24
Short: 25-36
Long: 37-49
Hand and half: 50-69
Two-handed: 70-79

Then small weapons can be as big as NPC claws. This first came when I brought it to the GM's attention that Beastmen using their discipline can wield 36" long claws, which I felt was way too long (and I was playing a beastman using them.)

because an axe doesnt rely on dexterity, its about mass and a smoothe cutting edge( serations would actually REDUCE its effectivness); and hammers dont have spikes, cause then they are morning stars...not hammers.

While I doubt this matters and will be argued ad-nauseum (rolls eyes), hammer/mace= large crushing weight at the end of a fulcrum. A Warhammer is a mace, it's name just comes from it's similarity to the tool. If anything, because of their origins, they woiuld technically be war-"mallets".

Spikes on a hammer while still remaining a "hammer"?