warrior skill ideas and changes

Wyrmwrath · Post by **Wyrmwrath** » Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:08 pm

if a "1" is attached to the call then it does not surge, it can be blocked by a shield, armor, and combat reflexes, without the number it surges and is unavoidable save if you have a resist

if it hits your life points, its no different

Ark · Post by **Ark** » Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:00 pm

hmmmm, was expecting some super dramatic quote quote quote thing. . .

anyway. yes indeed if it hits your life it works.

but if you cant see the benifit of it having to go through 3 layers of protection (weapon/shield, armor, combat reflexes) over just straight up working no matter what then i cant help you

Ark · Post by **Ark** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:24 am

so i decided more and more that:

i dont want warriors to do 3
i dont want warriors to do 4

i want them to do 2 well

remove weapon spec, replace it with another political skill if you have to.
change rage to allow use of parry and resists.

that is all, warriors can the use rage more, be able to swing 2 well, and i really could care less about 3 or 4.

Wyrmwrath · Post by **Wyrmwrath** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 1:33 am

so now you want to cap WARRIORS at 2 and rogues at ...16?!?!?!?

...didnt you say rogues did to MUCH?

I think you have confused yourself about your original direction.

Fighters should do more 2 to 4 depending on fighting style, and rogues should be do lots, form behind/suprise and be great at not getting hit by mages and archers.

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:51 am

I personally think both the Warrior Path should drop the Weapon specialization, and Rogue crit strike should go back to 3,6,9. I've played both classes in their pre-expansion version without those boosts, and thought they were just fine.

I've heard that it's a big deal that warriors can't stack their weapon Spec/Focus to add Rage to swing constant 4's, when "tons" of other people throw 4 with Critical strike (not that it's in any way the same as constant damage), then pick up basic critical strike as a warrior. Simple.

Hell, then you can do what I do as Marcus and use the weapon spec/focus to make your warrior swing basic swings of 2, with critical strikes of "5", and every 3 seconds at a time too, if you get a sage buff. That kind of damage output works great for me, and I'm a full Healer.

Especially since if disarmed, a warrior's weapon focus makes them be able to swing any functional weapon on the field they can get their hands on (even a single fist) for that extra point of damage, while if I can't get to my Hammer as Marcus, I have to get lucky and find another hammer/axe/mace somewhere close at hand or go back to swinging "1", and it drops the Crit Strike back to "4" as well.

Ark · Post by **Ark** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 1:06 pm

brian weapon spec was stacking a building on top of another building that was not even done yet. all it did was give ammo to those people that say "warrior can swing 3" so it does not need any buffs.

rage is pretty bad, and weapon spec is worse, the two combined are just bleh (and this is coming from someone who was able to swing 4 back when the changes were first made)

if a warrior commits a discipline and has weapon focus then they should be able to do 3 well, thats fair.

and i agree with above, if warrior drops to being able to do 2 well then rogue drops as well. we seem to have a little escalation going on and it should all be reduced if this is going to continue to be a low number system.

Wyrmwrath · Post by **Wyrmwrath** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 1:46 pm

Marcus
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I've heard that it's a big deal that warriors can't stack their weapon Spec/Focus to add Rage to swing constant 4's, when "tons" of other people throw 4 with Critical strike (not that it's in any way the same as constant damage), then pick up basic critical strike as a warrior. Simple.

1) I havent heard anyone suggest a PC swinging 4 or more all the time/constantly. Not sure where you got that impression from. Point it out if I missed it.
2) its not simple, since that requires less armor and a charge time and can be interrupted. its not even close to the same. Classis toe to to fighters dont have the charge up luxory against smart foes, and they arent fighting mindless beasts all the time like the necro camp in the iron city showed.

That kind of damage output works great for me, and I'm a full Healer.

That just proves the point...your a healer...a warrior should be able to do MUCH better.

Ark
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brian weapon spec was stacking a building on top of another building that was not even done yet. all it did was give ammo to those people that say "warrior can swing 3" so it does not need any buffs.

1) huh? I dont see how your analogy clarifies your point.
2) and a fighter needs "buffs" (god I hate that term) because why?

if a warrior commits a discipline and has weapon focus then they should be able to do 3 well, thats fair

.

Im all for 2 with weapon focus and usable shiled, 3 with rage and focus and usable shield and no parry like skills, and 4 with no shiled and rage and fcus and two handed weapon. yes that means all are worth one more with a hero point, but since they are no longer refreshable each event....that would be cool to see ....a s handed weapon weilding warrior clearing a mob of baddies swinging 5 with no care for his own safety or suurvival in a heroic charge to save or by time for the town.... THATS epic!

of cource im all for mages that can vaporize a PC if the PC lets him/her/it get enough traction to cast such a spell, evil healers that can steal lifde from a distance like a sith, or elven rogue assassins taht can crit strike with a bow like a marine sniper...since those would ALL be awesome characters in the story I want my PC to live. Im also ok with NPCs being built like PCs so the challenge is real and not artificial where PCs dont die when they dont heed warning of an impending artifacts explosion or chose not to retreat in the face of foes they arent meant to beat in a fight, and my PC dying and not throwing a tantrum since that is actually an awesome part of the game and the story of that PCs life. Why else would anyone play a role playing game?!?!

Does it mean making NPCs tougher? not really, just means it ok to give them parry on occasion, or specify that thye are doing 3 damage due to a weapon focus so are hindered by disarm...

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:01 am

2) its not simple, since that requires less armor and a charge time and can be interrupted. its not even close to the same. Classis toe to to fighters dont have the charge up luxory against smart foes, and they arent fighting mindless beasts all the time like the necro camp in the iron city showed.

That just proves the point...your a healer...a warrior should be able to do MUCH better.

I am a healer with 12 points of armor and if a curved blade could be used as a hammer I could get a sage buff and swing "7" every three seconds. Without any of the defensive skills or extra soak from CR and LP a warrior has, and without dual wield or rage to provide extra damage for normal swings.

Or try taking Crit strike with a curved blade with weapon specialization and dual wield (add a sage buff). Fight the whole battle swinging "2" with a single weapon(raging for 3 if you want), then pull a second weapon from it's sheath.

Charge for three seconds, swing a "7" with the curved blade, and then if you have to, either continue duel wielding for "1" with each hand (with the added defense of that second weapon to block with), or pull back, sheath the second weapon, and then continue swinging "2" with your main.

The whole time Parrying and DMing for flavor, with all the added CR and LP that a warrior can get over other classes for extra soak.

Or....get a balanced blade to use with weapon Specialization. You can't wear heavy armor, but can swing "5" every two seconds. "7" every 2 seconds by combining with curved weapon.

Warrior skills don't necessarily have to be balanced against wearing the heaviest possible armor, combined with swinging high damage with very few downsides.

cole45 · Post by **cole45** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 3:20 pm

Warrior skills don't necessarily have to be balanced against wearing the heaviest possible armor, combined with swinging high damage with very few downsides.

Nor should they. We added some skills to make lighter armored warriors better.

Ark · Post by **Ark** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 3:30 pm

cole45 wrote:Nor should they. We added some skills to make lighter armored warriors better.

and sure footed is awsome by the way

i think thats a cool way to ballance skills on a class like warrior. gives the idea of heavy infantry, medium, etc.

so to recap my comments on warrior as they are now.

-change rage to allow parry and resists to work.
-i supose leave in weapon spec but perhaps make a it long weapons or bigger only? (pikes, bastardswords, greataxes, etc.)
-perhaps add in a duel weild that is restricted to medium armor (same as rogue, better then swash, worse then the privliged one)
-i still would like warriors to have a hamstring effect, maybe restrict this to medium as well?

that gives you your heavy and medium infantry differences

Wyrmwrath · Post by **Wyrmwrath** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 6:37 pm

Marcus
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Or try taking Crit strike with a curved blade with weapon specialization and dual wield (add a sage buff). Fight the whole battle swinging "2" with a single weapon(raging for 3 if you want), then pull a second weapon from it's sheath.

Charge for three seconds, swing a "7" with the curved blade, and then if you have to, either continue duel wielding for "1" with each hand (with the added defense of that second weapon to block with), or pull back, sheath the second weapon, and then continue swinging "2" with your main.

The whole time Parrying and DMing for flavor, with all the added CR and LP that a warrior can get over other classes for extra soak.

Or....get a balanced blade to use with weapon Specialization. You can't wear heavy armor, but can swing "5" every two seconds. "7" every 2 seconds by combining with curved weapon.

and none of that has anything to do with warrior, its all about rogue skills added to make a warrior better. so...the opposite of what I said about a warrior should be able to do better.

Warrior skills don't necessarily have to be balanced against wearing the heaviest possible armor, combined with swinging high damage with very few downsides.

cole45
Nor should they. We added some skills to make lighter armored warriors better.

1) I never said no or few downsides.
2) I dont think 3 is high damage for a warrior, even in the FH system
3) hell yes it should be balanced against heaviest armor, since they are allowed to wear it. If a player chooses to have his PC wear less, fine, but thats the players choice. If you dont balance the skill on the assumption of heaviest armor, it is easily broken when they DO use the skill and heaviest armor.