Nicholson point system

Post by **Zydana** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:38 pm

Zydana wrote:
Here is a post by our own GM Chris explaining what the metagaming rule is.

http://www.finalhavenlarp.com/phpBB2/vi ... .php?t=647

The problem with a PC doing it is that they now have access or knowledge rather to other players stuff. They know what kind of reward you're getting or have.

Other than the obvious possible blabbing to other characters, which shouldn't be done anyway since this should fall under the NPC camp blanket, but you can't un-learn it during the game either.

If I was playing someone who was enemies with someone else, I know they now have X spell/potion/goodie that I will now be aware of in game. What if the town bad guy that picked up something cool?

**edit** deleted my original post since I thought I was editing that rather than quoting that. You get the picture.

Wyrmwrath · Post by **Wyrmwrath** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:41 pm

MOST of the rewards in these type of systems come from EFFORT based donation

who said? It will be approximately equal between strait cash and "effort" or it wont happen

I said, since I was obviously by the words I purposly chose, not speaking about the specifics of the system you and the others are whipping up. If you have a more symetrical list it will be different than most donation reward systems I have run across. Hence why I stated it as I did.

Post by **GM_Chris** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:57 pm

Ah--to Brian

Well 1 thing to remember:

The "goodies" will only be good enough to encourage people to participate, but not good enough to be game changing. We will not accept a 5k donation then give him or her "Corban's sword". We might give out a boon for the next million events like say 2-3 healing potions and a hero point. Just talking off the top of my head. Would this be such a big deal that a player should not know about it? Possibly

Post by **Zydana** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:20 pm

*nod*

I'm not saying that people will intentionally be dishonest and blab about so-and-so who just donated 5K and got X. But this might be an instance where it would probably be best to exercise caution and just keep these records with the staff.

Wyrmwrath · Post by **Wyrmwrath** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:03 pm

Honestly if a players is going to gossip like a school girl over who got what and whine about it rather than step up and get some of what the donatiopn rewards system offers, they arent mature enough to be playing with other adults and shoulw game elsewhere.

The system is designed to motivate players to help out the STAFF, its not really for thebenefit of the players. I am really tired of hearing about players who might whine or are whining when the staff busts it ass, because its just selfish self absorbed childish BS.

Tthe system is a boon to the staff. Period. People may gripe, I agree. If they do they really arent worth paying attention to since they are just looking for attention. I am NOT speaking about adults trying to make valid concerns heartd and noted in an effort to improve the game in some way. Thats different.

Post by **GM_Chris** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:00 pm

Part of me wonders if giving recognition to those who donate would not be a bad idea.

What you can buy will be static, it has to be so there is no special treatment. There will be a limit on what you can buy at a time. It might be good to have titles like at 100 points=supporter 1k points= awesome head 5k points we love you.

So then eveyone will have a vague idea what a person might have bought but really no big deal

Ark · Post by **Ark** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:13 pm

hmmm. personally i would just go for a straight more cash = benifit.
extra $5 = 2 more levels that event, etc.

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Wyrmwrath · Post by **Wyrmwrath** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:59 pm

hmmm. personally i would just go for a straight more cash = benifit.
extra $5 = 2 more levels that event, etc.

Well if the system is well crafted it will be more like $200 = 1 level, not $5, where as donating 25 weappons, 5 FULL costumes, and a shield = 4 levels. That way the players whose jobs/lives give them access to more spendable cash reserves arent just buying benefits for thier PC, while those more cash strapped but rich in time and willingness to put forth effort get a higher return on investment.

Kalphoenix · Post by **Kalphoenix** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 2:14 am

GM_Chris wrote:Ah--to Brian

Well 1 thing to remember:

The "goodies" will only be good enough to encourage people to participate, but not good enough to be game changing. We will not accept a 5k donation then give him or her "Corban's sword". We might give out a boon for the next million events like say 2-3 healing potions and a hero point. Just talking off the top of my head. Would this be such a big deal that a player should not know about it? Possibly

GM_Chris wrote:Part of me wonders if giving recognition to those who donate would not be a bad idea.

What you can buy will be static, it has to be so there is no special treatment. There will be a limit on what you can buy at a time. It might be good to have titles like at 100 points=supporter 1k points= awesome head 5k points we love you.

So then eveyone will have a vague idea what a person might have bought but really no big deal

I feel a little dumb saying this, but both of these posts give me GREAT reassurance in where I would LOVE to see this sort of a system go.

I'm still against being able to buy levels though, at any price, except for being able to pay/donate for missed events during the season (Or previous season if donations are accepted at the end of the year). I'm great with WH's current ability to buy "Makeup" levels by paying for the event.

And yes, this sort of system needs to be firmly in the hands of Staff to keep it fair. You know WHY I comment about people bitching and causing legitimate trouble? It's because I have personal experience with it happening and I'm trying to knock it off at the curb. Nothing is perfect, but it's dumb to just charge in and pretend it won't happen.

Personally, while I'm not sure how much it would sweeten the pot with how good/mediocre I am, I'd be willing to scribble some personal player sketches (I like doing busts in particular, so maybe character "badges?") for in a little "Adventure's Pack" people could donate for at the end of the year with some minor goodies (potions, one-shots) to make up for some of the economic crunch we've all been experiencing with the camps and attendance? Maybe a donation of something in the $10-20 range?

Ark · Post by **Ark** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 3:41 am

costumes and such require money, and site rental cannot be paid in phys reps. . .i think

but i was carefull to say *that event*
as in instead of paying $30 and getting 4 levels, you pay $35-40 and get 6. it offers no severe mechanical advantage, no magic items and the like. but i would call it "premium player" most games have them.

or make a seperate list of metagame items that cost real money:
-character rewrite $15 (limit once per year)
-re choose path $10 (limit once per year)
-unlearn 2 skills at begining of event $5 (limit once per event)
-re choose perk/speciality: $5 (limit twice per year)
-change race $10 (limit once per year)

these really give no benifit, and allow game based fixes for alot of problems people end up having. maybe you dont like your path, or like a different race better after playing, or maybe you just picked the wrong perk. no need to start over.

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Wyrmwrath · Post by **Wyrmwrath** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 7:20 am

costumes and such require money, and site rental cannot be paid in phys reps. . .i think

They do require money, but arent cash driven, Thats what your missing. A cash driven donation would be a fod machine, purchased set of armor, printer for check in use. These are just no effort purchases.
Effort driven donations may require cash for materials but are more about the work involved. Weapons physreps, costumes, a make up hit for monster camp, full size boffer draco lich phys rep ( i have actualy seen one of these and it was awesome), chests , hand mande armor, etc...
This stuff should get better rewards than donation just bought with cash UNLESS its something NEEDED by monster camp or something that could only be purchased.

as in instead of paying $30 and getting 4 levels, you pay $35-40 and get 6. it offers no severe mechanical advantage, no magic items and the like. but i would call it "premium player" most games have them.

I am not opposed to the concept, but VERY opposed to the ratio your suggestiong.

or make a seperate list of metagame items that cost real money:
-character rewrite $15 (limit once per year)
-re choose path $10 (limit once per year)
-unlearn 2 skills at begining of event $5 (limit once per event)
-re choose perk/speciality: $5 (limit twice per year)
-change race $10 (limit once per year)

These could be included, but I see no valid reason they should be listed as things you can just spend cash for and certainly not at the rates your suggesting, not even close to those.

these really give no benifit, and allow game based fixes for alot of problems people end up having.

I am stunned you would even suggest they give no benefit, and I cant fathom how you can actualy think that.

What "problems" do these people your speaking of have? Or do you mean problem with the choices you have made you think others are also having. The only problems I can see that y ou are eluding too are choices thet were made about the PC build that were min/max motivated that didnt work out. If your building your PC form a role play perspective, only rules changes should lead to the need to alter your build.

Ark · Post by **Ark** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:35 am

. . .how much money do you think the average player has? more so how much do you think they are willing to spend on there character? not to be the materialistic weasal of the group but alot of money can be made on micro transactions. money that in tern goes to site rental, event expenses, NPC phys reps, etc.

i think the prices i have listed are very close to what i would asume they would be if implimented, i might pay slightly more, but im certainly not paying more then it costs to even go to an event. if i asked how much it costs to get a rewrite, and you said $100+ i would laugh in your face and never attend another game.

Wyrmwrath · Post by **Wyrmwrath** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:40 pm

It should cost more than 100 dollars to get a re write, this is a role playing game, not halo where you can just start a new saved game.

Cash motivated donations should NOT get the same return on investment as effort based ones. Otherwise you get a player that is a 120k a year programmer, that is a gamer and not a role player and starts throwing a few thousand at the staff so he can double his levels and then get a 5 dollar re write some other gamer suggested, and min max his PC in a way the guy buying material and making tabbards and cloaks and costumes doesnt have the free cash to match and not the system is unfair.

So feel free to laugh and leave if you cant get a 5 dollar re write, since that will just prove my point about your approach to the game. Maybe you can surf the net for cheat codes or glitches to exploit where you can dupe really l33t FH items....

Post by **GM_Chris** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 2:29 pm

Cash motivated donations should NOT get the same return on investment as effort based ones. Otherwise you get a player that is a 120k a year programmer, that is a gamer and not a role player and starts throwing a few thousand at the staff so he can double his levels and then get a 5 dollar re write some other gamer suggested, and min max his PC in a way the guy buying material and making tabbards and cloaks and costumes doesnt have the free cash to match and not the system is unfair.

I will say it again. To be "fair" then the points earned for cash donations must equal effort donations. Therefore, if the reward was to double your levels for 2k then what ever 2k worth of effort is will also double your levels. Otherwise you are just hating on the person who is a 120k a year programmer and that is NOT fair. It is wrong to imply people who make alot of money and do not have time are not good role players.

Kiel Reid · Post by **Kiel Reid** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 2:38 pm

I feel as though cash and effort should be rewarded equally. Along with craftsmanship. Suppose someone doesn't have the time to sit around all day and make props. Why can't they just donate to the game itself gaining these same advantages.

To be honest when someone donates to the game everyone wins. You get better garb on NPC's, better props, and a better game overall because the people running it are less weighed down by those constraints. If you wanna buy 50,000 levels that's cool because with all that cash NPC's now look way cooler.

I wanna meet this computer programmer who is gonna spend a couple grand on this game for some levels or a magic item. Who is this guy? Does he have a mental condition? Because for a couple of grand he could just start his own LARP and just be a badass there. Not that I would tell him no. For a grand NPC's could get a whole armory of new weapons and garb or run the event for free.

If you make the rewards too small there is no advantage. If the cost of rewards is too high. I feel as though $200 for 1 level is not even close to the realm of rational thought nor is 25 weapons, 5 costumes and a shield the equivalent of 4 levels.