Turtling Rule

Aurora · Post by **Aurora** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 2:16 pm

See I like my shield because of the hour glass shape you can get me from the side if I'm not paying attention and due to who made it I know my edges are padded.

I've seen shields at both larps that make me nervous because the edges are not padded well and I believe that is why shields in general are being discussed.

I'm not a crafty type, so if there are any changes it's going to be difficult for me to do anything with the shiled and I paid to have someone make it for me.

celegar · Post by **celegar** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:03 pm

its really easy to dagorhir safeitize a shield, one layer of closed cell foam on the front edge and at least a pool noodle thickness around the edge. done.

Post by **GM_Chris** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 5:07 pm

I thought Dagohir used pillow shields since the do so much bashing?

That was what I was invisioning anways

Zeira · Post by **Zeira** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 5:15 pm

Starks shield (The big blue kite shield) and CJ's shield (The small round w/symbol) I believe are both Dagohir shields. The big blue would not be safe for bashing because the core is wood. The edges have 2" of foam and the face has 1 1/2" of foam. In Kanar you can only bash with shields with a plastic core or that are latex all the way through.

Jaycen Blackhawk · Post by **Jaycen Blackhawk** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 5:19 pm

Zeira wrote:Starks shield (The big blue kite shield) and CJ's shield (The small round w/symbol) I believe are both Dagohir shields. The big blue would not be safe for bashing because the core is wood. The edges have 2" of foam and the face has 1 1/2" of foam. In Kanar you can only bash with shields with a plastic core or that are latex all the way through.

In KANAR you can handle turtling by putting a boot to the center of the person turtling and sparta kicking them. It stops turtling.

Ark · Post by **Ark** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 5:46 pm

nevermind

Post by **GM_Chris** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:06 pm

Off topic, based on Arc's post. Is anyone at all even remotely upset in this discussion??

I was reading this and everyone seemed to see an issue and seemed to be positively discussing it. Infact if I was going to put an emotional labvel on this discussion I would almost consider this jovial (minus the 2 people who I would lable as upset) so I am confused by the: "rule discussions bring out the worst in people post"

So I am curious if my perception of reality is really that far off base or what is going on>

Thanks

Ark · Post by **Ark** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:53 pm

had fun, thank you all, goodby

Esmerelda · Post by **Esmerelda** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 1:43 pm

To answer your question Chris- I've been off the boards since Thursday morning and came back to read this thread. Aside from 2 people, I'd say no one was upset during this thread- just tossing ideas out there about how to improve the safety of the game. Spirited discussion and some difference of opinion? Most definately.

People being pissed off? Not the feeling I got at all, with the aforementioned exceptions.

Rhul · Post by **Rhul** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 1:45 pm

Without helping in arguing, here's my take on some of the stuff in this discussion:

-We should just go ahead and use Dagorhir/Belegarth shields. My shield is a strap-shield of 5/8 inch wood core, with three layers of blue foam on the face and edges. It was done this way because in Belagarth, shield bashing/edging is legal, yes, even against those without a shield. So the stats for a shield's construction have to ensure injury-free contact. They look a little less 'real' but are more larp safe than most weapons. Imo, pipe-foam edging is barely safe, as a shield has more mass than a sword of the same padding style, and many of the shields I see have some of the foam constantly coming loose anyway (not all, some look really sweet).

-No 'turtling' with shields. Nothing special, this means ducking into the cover of a large enough shield to cover your entire torso and head, and then just wildly swinging for the legs on the enemy's weapon-arm side. It makes for unsafe swinging (I once had my legs taken completely out from under me this way in the Castle Gravesbane battle) and is a move that can only be countered by illegally charging the shield-bearer. Yes, turtling is a legitimate Real-world styll, but while I am the nicest guy in the world, but I swear the next time I see this, I will take the opportunity to counter in in 'a Belegarth-legal, FH-illegal style':twisted:.

-Wrapping. Yes, this is mostly a 'use your own judgement' thing, but if you are standing on one 'facing' of an opponent, you cannot swing to hit the opposite facing (eg. if standing in front, you can't hit their back). Obviously, this can be open to interpretation (opponent bending over, etc), but if you want to hit your opponent in the back while you are both standing upright, circle around him, easy as that. Usually the very act of wrapping leads to charging, which is why the rule is there.

-Charging. Don't ever attempt physically move someone. That's for using "Press", and "press" only. When fighting, keep the shortest weapon in the combat between you at all times. Many times I've had an NPC call me for charging, when I am trying to duck past their 3-foot sword to swing my 18-inch fists. Too bad. The rules aren't there to let you swing when I can't.

I'll come up with others later.

Aurora · Post by **Aurora** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 6:21 pm

Ok I have a new question..

Say we implement this and my shield isn't up to this new code. Who is going to modify my shield because although I bake I am not crafty enough to so projects like this which is why I paid to have someone make my shield.

I'm not just going to throw out an $80-90 shield.

Goonter · Post by **Goonter** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:19 am

Julie has a good point. It sucks when you spend a lot of money on equipment and then are unable to use it.

General Maximus · Post by **General Maximus** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:05 am

Reid had a good idea on the wrapping and direction issue. (You know, did it hit the back and you take the damage or not with skills like hold ground and defensive matrix).

Here is his idea. The postion of a person determines the area an attack can effect. You must be behind a person to hit them in the back.

Aka, you need to behind a person to hit them in the back. If you are standing infront of a person and hit them in the back, it counts as if they where hit from the front. This should reduce the arguments of if the hit counts as a back hit or not. And it shuld reduce folks closing in so close to people to wrap around them and hit there back.

Simple and reduces alot of field questions.

Atrum Draconus · Post by **Atrum Draconus** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:09 am

If things change and a shield isn't legal anymore then it isn't. If they outlaw certain types of weapons and you have one no one is going to replace them for you, why would anyone have to do that for shields.

Uhm, if you are hit in the back then you are hit in the back. If someone is on your side and hits you in the back how does that go? Say they're at 2 oclock and hit your back, does that count? Were they at 2 o'clock or 3 because 3 - 9 o'clock (90 -270 degrees) would be the back. That solution seems like it will create more arguments than reduce the amount of them.

Personally, I think the shield size requirements are FAR too subjective and need to be standardized across the board. Sure it may mean that the 5'2" 120lb person has more coverage than the 6'8" 300lb person but so what. Then if you pick up a shield phys rep you don't have to worry that it's too large and it easily measured if there is a question of whether it's too big. To me, half the shields in FH are larger than they should be, most being too wide.

Aurora · Post by **Aurora** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:25 am

Problem is for me, I'm not good at making shields. So I guess if mine becomes illegal I'll just having to see who will make me a shield similar to the one I have now but designed with all the new specs if it comes down to that.

I was just putting it out there for sometimes it's not totally easy for some people to come up with the money to get the new items and some of us just don't have either the time or money to make new items. It's the only reason I put it out there.