3 vorpal poison knockout vs Parry

[Haku]

A rule clarification was brought up this past weekend at winter haven that i have a hard time wrapping my head around... It was stated by the GM's that a 3 vorpal poison knockout, or even a 3 vorpal knockout, while it can be parried, would still leave you knocked out. This has brought up a few different arguments, and i was just looking for some clarification... I was always under the assumption that parry/avoid blow would negate a frontal attack per life point.

Comments?

[Zeira]

This is probably from that other thread "A few Questions". I looked and wasn't very certain as to what was ruled so I'll let someone else answer because I am curious as well.

[GM-Mike]

I believe what was decided (and please correct me if I am wrong because I could be) is that the call 3 vorpal poison knockout is doing two different things. It is doing a knockout as well as a damaging poison attack. Parry allows you to reduce damaging effects to zero. Since knockout is not a damaging effect you cannot parry it. Howeevr you can parry the damaging portion of the call.

Given how confusing all of that is, I'm pretty sure that was not the intent, but, by the letter, I believe that is why it worked that way.

We will talk and try and clarify this better and get everyone on the same page

[Atrum Draconus]

Answered on the WH forums along with a clarification on # vorpal poison ko. Parry does allow you to reduce the # to 0 but K.O. infers that a tie goes to the ko'er so 0 vs 0 means you are still knocked the f#@& out but not poisoned.

I think it was suggested that ANY call with knockout in it was non damaging so you could never be poisoned and ko'd at the same time. I don't think we ever got a hard and fast ruling on the issue in the thread.

[cole45]

accordong the wording, yes, knockout does not affect you life.

[Ark]

if this is the way its suposed to be, that vorpal knockout cannot be parried, then i guess i will accept it, it makes assassin more lethal, and only stopable by resist sleep, and kandium armor.

[cole45]

CIn addition, any secondary effects caused by the special call (i.e. Fear, Poison, Sleep, Disease, etc) when preceded by a number will not take effect unless this damage hits your life points.

knockout does not affect life points, ergo, it can not cause you to be poisoned.

[Atrum Draconus]

And awaken, or any number of potions or spells that give you any undead qualities, and palladin. Assassin is chody enough, don't take away the 1 thing that really says assassin. If you let an assassin stab you with a dagger that they've had to have in their hand for at least a total of 40 seconds you deserve to be knocked out.

That was my point in the other thread though, how do you know that KO was supposed to be connected to the number? Each effect should be seperate in any call string.

[cole45]

originally it was sleep. and couldn't be parried/.

[Haku]

I guess the reason i'm asking is because as parry is stated, you can reduce any incoming frontal attack to 0. This includes vorpal, crush, knockout, poison, etc... So i guess it should say that while the call is being reduced to 0, you still take the effect? Because i can technically parry a vorpal attack, and a knockout attack, but just not when they're strung together? I guess my next question would be then why do resists work that way and not parry/avoid blow?

[cole45]

well, you wouldn't want to parry knockout, because it would still be zero knockout(unless you wanted to lower to block it with armor.) poison just doesn;t work at 0.

MOST effects rquire it to affect your life, so zero's don't DO anything. knockout is special, since it looks at armor instead.

[Malachi]

From the 2008 Rulebook.

Page 27

Basic Knockout
With this skill, the Rogue is able to render a target unconscious. To perform a knockout the Rogue must strike a target in any legal target area with a tiny weapon or a fist phys-rep and call the # and knockout. Thus, at this level the call is “3 Knockout.” If the characters involved are not in an active combat situation, Rogues may lightly touch their target with the pommel of a weapon to perform the knockout. If the target has three points of armor or less at the time of the knockout, the target falls unconscious for five minutes. See Knockout on page 82 for more nformation. This skill takes an uninterrupted 10 count to charge.

Page 32

Parry/Avoid Blow
A Warrior may spend a life point to reduce the damage delivered from any single frontal melee attack that has a number in the call to 0. This includes knockout, crush, vorpal, poison, etc. In addition, they may also parry disarm attacks.

Page 82

Knockout
When you are hit with a knockout your current armor including combat reflexes and enhancements needs to be greater than the number called to resist being knocked unconscious for 5 minutes. If your character’s current armor total is equal to or less than the number called then the character is knocked out. This call is delivered by a number followed by the word "knockout". For example, Robert the everlasting is in combat with 20 armor points, 8 of which come from combat reflexes while 12 come from regular armor. Robert is hit with a 9 knockout, but because his current total of armor points is greater than 9 Robert resists the attack. Later on Robert has taken 11 points of damage making his total armor points 9 and is again hit with a 9 knockout. This time Robert falls unconscious for 5 minutes because his current armor total is equal to or lower than the number called.

Page 84

Vorpal Armor cannot protect against vorpal damage. This type of damage by passes armor and the character is affected by any other effects attached to the call. Generally this is only a number call so if a character was hit for “9 vorpal” any armor would be by passed and 9 points would be subtracted from the character’s life point total. If a character was hit with a “9 vorpal Knockout” attack, the attack would by pass armor and the knockout effect would be applied, and thus the character would fall unconscious for 5 minutes.

The rules make it very clear. Parry drops the damage call to "0". If the attack happens to be "3 Vorpal (Poison) Knockout", the call is changed to "0 Vorpal (Poison) Knockout. Since Knockout in no way affects life points directly, it is impossible (under the current rules) for it to take effect from ANY Knockout call. However, the call of "0 Vorpal Knockout" still is greater than/ equal to any armor points you may have because it ignores armor.

There is at least one other way to be unaffected by this call in game, possibly two but I haven't picked a GM's brain about it yet.

[Atrum Draconus]

When you say 'it' what do you mean? Nevermind, this discussion has already been had ( poison + KO) and it's clear that you can't parry a vorpal KO. And you shouldn't be able to, that part isn't as clear unless you've been playing an assassin forever.

[Zeira]

There are plenty of ways to foil assassins. Just tap them once or hit their weapon and they are toast. Let them have their Vorpal KO effective against parry. It gives people a reason to be a Man at Arms again and makes warriors shake in their boots a little.

[Atrum Draconus]

Exactly, even if you don't have one of the quite a few ways to get around either vorpal or ko in the game there's always disruption and they have a fracking DAGGER. I need to use every ounce of skill I can muster to use it in a fight. Now, I may be able to sneak and do it a lot easier but that's the gorram point of an assassin. Warrior parry is not supposed to be an all inclusive get out of a mistake free card.