spell books/potion boooks and craftman books

cole45 · Post by **cole45** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 11:54 am

Since these are tagged and in game, they can be locked ? (not physically, but with a lock tag.)

dier_cire · Post by **dier_cire** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:13 pm

My thought would be no. You cannot suffiently lock a book to the point where someone with a little leverage and a weapon couldn't pop open. Especially if the binding wasn't metal. The Polly-pocket diary lock doesn't count as a lock.

You could however make a metal container to put the book in with a lock and phys-rep it as a metal type binding. You are, however, sporting two tags now instead of one.

cole45 · Post by **cole45** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:18 pm

my thought would be yes, as you can easily wrap a metal bind around the book.

crafting the lock includes the parts that go along with it. it must, as any door can be locked.

EDIT:

Or two chains. or what ever. There are no rules for screws and hinges, but they obviously work.

Smitty19 · Post by **Smitty19** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:28 am

When travis asked this, i immediately thought DaVinci Code, and the special lock that if dropped broke open the vial to disengrate the paper....couldnt that be something as a lock aspect?

General Maximus · Post by **General Maximus** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:57 am

I can see some type of cross metal bars that wrap the book that can be locked. You would have to remove the book from the locking device, so you would have 2 lags, 1 for the book, and 1 for the lock.

The physrep would be the problem because it would need to secure the book, have some type of lock showing, but remain open so if a person uses pick locks they can gain entrance. I guess one can assume, when not in use, the book is always locked.

dier_cire · Post by **dier_cire** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:28 am

well, the problem is traps aren't portable and potions aren't supposed to be throwable so this is an issue. Once you have a trap (or potion) small enough to be portable and deal damage, you introduce a direction niether skill was intended to go in.

And even chains or a crossbar won't keep someone from getting at the book. I could just cut/saw/melt the binding off and pull the pages out. It's like locking a tent. Heck you could still just rip all the pages out and destroy the thing. So locking it would at best mean that someone else couldn't steal your spells, but they could still destroy them all.

Todd · Post by **Todd** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:44 am

IMO it would be a possiblilty.

First, you would have to research how to craft such a device as to function the way you wanted.*
Second, it would have to be physrep'd properly.
Third, it would most likely result in 2 tags (Lock, & Key. The book is an in game item and thus acts as its own tag), this would allow a) the lock to be pickable, or b) the key to be stealable.

As a guess It would 'lock' the item, though not protect it from being stolen or destroyed. I would also include an 'unlocking time' of about 5 seconds, just to make it fair.

Again, this is only my opinion. The 'research' would have to be done to get something like that finalized.

Peace420 · Post by **Peace420** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:53 am

Not all locks need keys, some have other activation methods.

Potions never being meant to be thrown is not true at all. I still have the recipe for a thrown potion.

I don't see why a locked book wouldn't follow the same rules as any other locked container. Unless you could find a way to get past the container in some way, you can't destroy what's inside without destroying the entire thing. I'm not talking about the little flap of book that folds over a minute portion across from the binding. There are examples of book devices that made very good lock and page protection without neccesarily being a lockbox.

The problem, as with most things is phys repping it. You could just attatch a small lock phys rep and stats to it, thats what we do for doors.

cole45 · Post by **cole45** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:02 pm

like always, I agree with Temple.

You need 2 tags one for book and one for lock. And reed made an argument that you could still destroy the book, which you CAN do.

I personally don't think 2 chains and a padlock needs research. the lock is NOT just the turn key method. That's up to the crafty and the user to decide as long as it falls within the ruleset, which this does. (lock says it can lock any opening.)

dier_cire · Post by **dier_cire** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:13 pm

Yeah, that potion is great except I didn't say whether they exist, just whether they should (there are plenty of potions and spells that exist that shouldn't). Alchemy shouldn't allow throwable crap due to the inheritant breaks it'll cause down the road seeing as it's still a growing system. It's a door that should never have been opened. It's exactly the same for traps. They should never be movable.

Without completely covering the book completely, you feasibly could just throw the book in and let the fire do the rest or slice the parts accesiable to ribbons or feasiably damage the binding to pull all the pages out. At least if it's covered you have to wait till 451, and allwoing that to not happen is far less suspension of disbelief than it has a lock so it's immune to fire and damage.

cole45 · Post by **cole45** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:52 pm

yes, and you could unscrew the hinges from a locked door. But you can't.

Post by **Zydana** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:00 pm

am I wrong in thinking that a lock would protect the contents of a book, not so much from being destroyed, but from people who wish to learn of the book's contents.

A locked book should not prevent it from being destroyed be say, fire, as a locked door would not prevent the building down either.

Whether on a book or door or chest, a lock is to keep the stuff inside seperate from the stuff on the outside. That I think is the point being made. I see no reason to not be able to lock a book.

dier_cire · Post by **dier_cire** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 3:30 pm

cole45 wrote:yes, and you could unscrew the hinges from a locked door. But you can't.

Only if one used screws. Last time I checked there weren't many of those used on big iron bound doors. Good luck drilling out rivets without a power drill or hardened bits. It'd take a lot longer to get through an oak door than the leather binding of a book. I just really don't believe you can put a cheap piece of metal on a book and keep anyone out.

It's purely for peace of mind, not any real benefit. Locking a door has no benefit in this game either if your building has windows that can be crawled through and left it un protected, which is exactly why the keep only had arrow slits.

cole45 · Post by **cole45** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:09 pm

how long it takes to get though an object is a function of the object not the lock. that's why doors have the break down time.

And since when is a hand crafted lock a cheap piece of metal?

A lock just represents more than a single kind of devices. Why woud EVERY SINGLE DOOR be iron bound? they must be since you can locked every one of them? I don't buy it. The lock contains the gear needed to secure the opening. They MUST.

Todd · Post by **Todd** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:24 pm

Not everything that is plausible is possible, and vice versa. In real life if there is a door/chest etc. with a lock on it I could use a hammer to whack at the lock. In game we cant, thats why we are limited to a)picking time, and b)breaking time.

If you would like rules for a chain that protects your book, you must do research to find out how to do it in a manner that would make it 'unopenable' to ordinary means, and subject to a & b.

If you just want to wrap some chains around a book I bet you 10to1 I can get it out of your chains. Probly in less time then it would take you to unlock it.

If you want an 'in-game' advantage, it must comply with 'in-game' mechanics.