Reincarnation

dier_cire · Post by **dier_cire** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:07 pm

I'd agree. 5 hours is ridculous for any spell.

Post by **GM_Chris** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:57 pm

Well to be honest I didnt know it was a 5 hour spell. I guess it could be lowered. What time frame do you think is appropriate?

Im starting not to like reincarnation. The dead should stay dead.

Sunny · Post by **Sunny** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 4:05 pm

Meh, I think it SHOULD be hard, and costly, which it is. I think, to date, only 2 people have ever been brought back with it, in the 3 years it's been out there. That's not overly much.

I think 2 hours is fair. That's the length of a good cave crawl, and twice the time of any other spell in game. It requires 4 arcanes, and at least that many warriors, then.

Aurora · Post by **Aurora** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 4:28 pm

How about 2 and 1/2 hrs. Basically cut it right in half.

Zaire · Post by **Zaire** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 5:06 pm

I'm not familiar with the spell (or most magic), but couldn't it be possible to perform part of the spell in a safer place and then finish the ritual in the required location.

I'm not saying make it easy by any means, it just seems to me that the GM staff is really good at rewarding good ideas and thinking outside the box.

I mean I have tons of ideas but they all smack of metagaming if I post in the forums.

Just a thought.

dier_cire · Post by **dier_cire** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 7:31 pm

Actually I was thinking around 1.5 hours would be fine based on the pre-reqs.

Aurora · Post by **Aurora** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 7:58 pm

1 and a 1/2 is even better...

Yay that would be cool

Sunny · Post by **Sunny** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:08 pm

I would rejoyce at 1.5, throw a party even. Hell, I'd bake a cake and have Vaun jump naked out of it.

Kalphoenix · Post by **Kalphoenix** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:21 pm

Im starting not to like reincarnation. The dead should stay dead.

This is a fantasy game. I think I've said it already somewhere recently, but why are you shooting towards making the game more realistic? If anything, with the fact that death/permadeath is now being made even MORE likely, reincarnation should NOT have been made even more difficult, especially without advance notice. It wasn't my plan to bring anyone back after the last FH event, so the change doesn't bother me all that much on a personal level, but regardless of whether it was being discussed or not, to put it into play retroactively without a beforehand notice was very poor politics. It looked BAD. Especially considering that new magic item rules were implemented at some point, and the grandfathered-in magic items were NOT adjusted to them. Most of those are lost now, but that's not the point. Frequent deaths might be fun for the gunners out there who only really care about hanging out and beating on people with foam weapons, but it's not fun for me. I'm not saying I could do better, but I can guarantee that you will see props and roleplaying go downhill because of it. Who cares about putting time and money into something worthless that will spin down the drain due to a 30 boom? I was told to give it a chance, so I will, but if my state of mind is any indication, I'm doubtful.

Let me state, preemptively, that people are really going to start disliking me for bitching, but I am entitled to my opinion and I will continue to give it until I either leave or are asked to leave.

Epic. (forgive me if that word makes me a little bitter these days.)

I am in complete agreement. I won't comment on specifics. Maybe I should, but there is a politeness factor there that I happen to be willing to restrain myself on. But I'm all over that statement in the best of ways. And I would take it so far as to say except for the "forgive me" part, because I am never sorry for my opinion, and I refuse to feel guilty about it just for the sake of placating anyone. Neither should anyone else. I don't think my opinion is ever discounted, persay, but there is a point called "banging your head into a wall." I've reached that point, and I am taking a pause.

Post by **WayneO42** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 9:18 pm

First of all, I think you are way over reacting. In the entire time the spell has been in game, it has been used twice. Its not that big of a deal. Its meant to be a role-playing change. It makes the spell more epic than just sitting for half a day and *poof* your old dead buddy is back.

Death is a very important part in character development. Without the fear of it, choices to put yourself in danger are less heroic. Choices to run away seem less justifiable. All in all, it makes for two dimensional characters. From an out of game perspective, character turn over is also important in keeping the game fresh.

Secondly, the change to reincarnation was not a snap change. We had planned the change almost since the start of the season but decided to hold off until the off-season so the change could be made at the same time as the rule changes. As for the "Grand-Fathered" magic items, I really dont know what you are talking about. We asked for everyone to turn in magic items so they could be adjusted. If an item was left as is, it was because it wasnt reported or because it was not deemed to be broken.

I have noticed a lot of negative posts lately. I have said this a million times but maybe I need to say it again. If the game is no longer fun for you, dont play. Take a break or make a change so the game is fun again. Playing when it is no longer fun is a recipe for burn out and can cause a lot of hard feelings in the long run. Its a game. Games are supposed to be enjoyable. You wont hurt anyones feelings by taking a step back if you need to. We are all supportive people and will support anyones decision. Remember, We are players first and characters second.

Kalphoenix · Post by **Kalphoenix** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 12:45 am

First of all, I think you are way over reacting.

You're right. I am overreacting. It's a game. I want to believe that it's not important to me and I can walk away whenever I want instead of spending my time getting frustrated because of my concerns over something I am very passionate about. This also wasn't the thread to make my general concerns known. I am apparently not capable of typing a cohesive post that people understand. That ALSO frustrates me.

I just feel that, lately, if I don't say anything, it's taken for acceptance. You're right. I'm not happy with the rules, even though about 85% of the clarifications I am fine with. My bitch-factor is on the seemingly increased need to make the game more deadly and thereby encourage people to make cookie-cutter characters because otherwise they are wasting money on props for a character who gets killed in one or two events, or maybe makes it through a year. I'm NOT very happy with the new death rules. I'd have rather seen us just say you automatically die at -20 than add in all this extra stuff about requiring a surgeon. I'm not happy about the fact that instant mystic heal was basically killed, even though it requires TWO master skills to perform it instantly and should have been left alone. It could have been fixed by putting a time on potion usage (Done...could have been longer, but no biggie) or clarifying that you continue to bleed out while Mystic Heal is performed. Could have also made healing potions take longer to brew. Who CARES if they use a ton of potions. They have to come from somewhere.

I'm curious to know what the FH GM staff's desired character turnover is.

Like I said, I'm bitching pre-maturely, I'm sure. I don't deny that this is a rant. I don't deny that my real-world state of mind is affecting my opinion.

I'll stop arguing, and I'll stop giving my "negative" opinions. You're right, I tell people all the time about other things (Usually MMOs), talk with your money and quit. I just don't want to feel I've walked away without giving my two cents first. I have that option here and considering I like most of you, personally, I feel I owe you that and I hope you feel you at least feel the same, even if you disagree.

Post by **WayneO42** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:40 am

I'm curious to know what the FH GM staff's desired character turnover is.

I would like to see character turnover about every three years. I think that is enough time for characters to get "Played out". Thats about the time it takes for a player to get bored with a character. Characters that are around longer shuld still be O.K. as long as their player is still not bored and working towards character goals. Characters working towards goals make the game dynamic. Characters who have accomplished their goals and are hanging around to gain levels, make the game stale.

As for character death, you have yet to see the rules in action. There will be adjustments on the NPC side of things to reflect the new rules. You wont see a lot of 30 booms being thrown around. If you do, you can rest assured that the one throwing them is a major bad guy, not just a random encounter. Its funny to hear these arguments again. When we started the game with low soak, everyone said that their characters wouldnt last longer than a few seasons. Most of those characters never died, their players moved on or retired the character. Its all relative. If every monster swung for 5 and shot 30 magic out their a$$ then yeah, you would all be in trouble.

Why did we make the change to negative life to require surgery? Because that is what the healer is all about. If we allowed the use of potions, then the alchemist becomes a better healer than the Healer. If we didnt nerf the Mystic heal then the Druid is the ultimate healer (I wont explain the Mystic Heal combo again or else my head will explode). The changes were made to showcase a path while still allowing other healing (Potions, Mystic, transfer life) to still function.

Post by **GM_Chris** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:40 am

Im just trying to figure out how my comment on "me no like reincarnation" was posted on when my first comment was "yeah your right I guess I could see lowering the spells time"

Very strange. The me no like reincarnation was in character.....

Post by **GM_Chris** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:41 am

Must resist........."vaun jump nakkid out of cake"....must resist comment.......

HEHEHE

cole45 · Post by **cole45** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 10:10 am

I don't like the vague location either, but there just is no good way to judge this spell on a general basis. This is a specific incident spell, and each use needs to be check.

You want to know how close? Ask a GM.

at WH we fielded that question, and answered.

The FH gm's fielded the question and gave a straight answer so the players could plan accordingly.

This change was purposely held off to the off season because of the radical changes.

I think the spell is fine, It's hard, and dramatic, and if you really really really want to, you COULD get i off in 2.5 hours.