An idea on armor coverage on arms/legs

[Marcus]

Has anyone thought about making it easier to have legal arm and leg armor? Right now, you have to have the elbow/knee covered, and that's something I have rarely seen. Usually only on platemail/chainmail, and I think I have seen one instance of leather covering the elbow (Gen. Maximus).

I think if we are making armor phys-reps easier for the players without alot of money to get ahold of (the new fake armor discussion) we might think about just delegating leg/arm armor abstractly to bracers and greaves, and having the category being the construction of each. Kind of like in WoW or RPG games.

So, for example, a thin leather(suede) bracer would count as light armor for the entire arm, a heavy leather would be medium, and leather with metal attached over top of it/all metal would be heavy. Same thing for legs, maybe going as far as making legs have to be thing and shin covered.

I think this because of two things: cost and ease of construction.

Take arm armor for instance. Most players that have any kind of money/ability can either make or afford a 30-50 dollar set of thick leather bracers for each forearm, but bracers that includes an elbow cop or set of articulated lames are incredibly difficult for a layman to make and have fit correctly (this coming from someone who makes armor), and purchasing them retail drives the price up considerably, closer to 100 dollars or more a pair (even more for steel, 100 is just for leather), which kills the "anybody can get into this" mentality of our game.

[GM_Chris]

Right now, you have to have the elbow/knee covered, and that's something I have rarely seen.

Incorrect, you have to have a joint covered.

You could cover shoulders and wasit to thigh.

Unless I am once again wrong

[General Maximus]

I have to agree, making armor to cover joints is very diffucult and talored made to each person. Here is an idea for a change. To get legs and arms you need to cover the upper and lower sections of the limb in armor, but it does not nesscarly have to cross over the joint.

Just a thought!

[Marcus]

Here's a pic of me wearing the armor I wore as Durgan- it was widely considered full medium. Technically, as I read the rules, the arms and legs are not entire pieces, and even the helm would be considered light because of the lack of cheek plates, due to my glasses), even though it's heavy gauge chainmail with an aventail all the way down the back of my neck that's made of mail as well.

[GM_Chris]

To quote the rule book:

To receive armor points for the legs or arms, they must be
covered by a piece of armor that crosses a joint such as the shoulder, elbow, or knee.

So for once I am right. Aaron you are wrong on all accounts.

To get arms and legs and torso you could puton a chain chirt with half arms that goes down to say mid thigh

[Marcus]

That's what I was thinking, but how would someone without my access to armor do it and have it look good, ie, without alot of time or money, because even this shirt
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s274 ... mor003.jpg wouldn't count because while the shoulders are covered, the bottom isn't long enough, and it took me 25 hours to make, and woiuld cost over $250 if bought retail....

That was what prompted my original suggestion, something that makes it easier for someone like, say, my Girlfriend, who wants to have fun, but is a beginning teacher so doesn't have the time or money for extensive armor.

[GM_Chris]

Now dont get upset if I say something different that you already been told because I would grandfather people in, but if you are just wearing leather then I would say that is a leather chest piece only. If that is, hmmm forget the name but metal plates inside the leather I would say it is medium.

It is also real, and I would give you 2 LP for your garb and looking way cool. OH and a real medium helm.

Anyone else want to judge?

[GM_Chris]

You know, and I will see what otehr says, but I could be talked into giving 1 extra location by adding in the arms and legs you have.

Are those legs and arms scaled?


See I am wavering on light to medium depending on what the consistency is like

[Marcus]

Oh, it's no biggie at all, Chris . I just want it to be cleared up before the season. I was told by several players when I started that my bracers were enough to be arms, so I thought I should state what I seems to understand to be many player's common opinion on armor.

As for my arms/legs, the bracers are thick tooled leather (7-8 oz, they are about the thickest I have seen that are sold retail- I got them from a Ren Faire) and the legs are the same weight leather with steel rings attached.

I used to wear the chain shirt under my leather chest (which has steel plates in the pockets on front and back) so the shoulder joint was covered, but that only works because chain is still considered med/heavy. The whole, "covers joints" part of arm/leg armor seems to add considerable cost/construction effort to anything other than light armor. Using a pair of the shoulder pieces in the above photo would cost over 100 dollars alone.

[GM_Chris]

You could fab some medium hardened shoulders pretty cheaply, especially if you go in with other people for the leather. A side of cow is about 100 bucks, but you can make alot with it. Infact, you mightbe able to go in with say 5 people and make 5 shoulder pieces.

Or you could go with the making chainmail and attach it to your ecisting armor so it goes down the arm.

Like I said though I might be willing to give 1 extra location for the amount of leather you have on your legs and arms even though none crosses a joint if the other GMS's agreed. This is a great picture for judging!

[General Maximus]

I never said you where not right Chris

I'm just saying I don't like the joint coverage rule. I read it and I thought I had to make some type of armor that cross over my elbows and knee. Now that you said it can cross the pelvis and shoulder to count makes a little more sense. But I isn't a little wierd to count full arm's with only your shoulders and upper armor covered and leaving your lower arms open? Same can be said about leaving the lower legs uncovered.
I would think for armoring , the lower arms and legs would be most important for protection intead of upper legs and upper arms. But that's just me.

I very interested in you QA for armor becasue I know I'm confused and I thought I knew who it was being judged.

I personal like
upper and lower legs covered
upper and lower arms covered
front and back torso/shoulders covered

But thats just my 2 cents

[GM_Chris]

We dont have time to change the rules. GM's will be judging but since he posted his pic in a post I thought I would open this one up to anyone itnerested.

I would think for armoring , the lower arms and legs would be most important for protection intead of upper legs and upper arms. But that's just

In real life you are corect. Encombrance happens when you have stiff material going across a joint. That is why there is a joint rule. Putting on shin pads does not do anything to hamper movement, even if in real life it does add protection.

So how many points would you give the armor above?

[General Maximus]

I will look at it when I get home. I can view pic's at work.

I know what you are saying Chris, but is it worth it? What does it bring to the game? How is does the stated rule make it fun for the players?

[Marcus]

In real life you are corect. Encombrance happens when you have stiff material going across a joint. That is why there is a joint rule. Putting on shin pads does not do anything to hamper movement, even if in real life it does add protection.

But with leather (using myself in medium armor as an example), knee cops (one piece) or lames (articulated pieces) over the knee don't really hamper movement any more than just the shins alone, they're just a lot harder to make so they fit correctly and even more expensive to buy in RL.

Not that I want to argue or anything. Armor coverage was something I had always wondered about, but never had a lot of time to discuss it till now. My legs for instance, were made for a Rogue character, and loosely patterned after an illustration of a D&D Rogue character who was wearing what D&D counted as full leather legs (his were just leather, I added the rings to mine to make them heavier).

It sucks that thay wouldn't count as medium, because they take as much time to put on as platemail legs (two main straps w/ buckles in each of the 4 pieces, shins have a extra under-boot stirrup strap on each, and then the thighs and loincloith all have to be threaded onto the belt as I'm putting it on through my pants' belt loops. My legs are easily the part of my armor that takes the longest to put on. (I just timed it- took 2:30 to put something on I have put on/off a couple dozen times)

[GM_Chris]

It is hard to see in the pict. My initial thought was light, then I asked if there were scales or if it was hardened.

The reason to get oppinions is so we can form the basis of an FAQ.

What armor value would you gie yourself?