List of Suggested Rule Changes

General Maximus · Post by **General Maximus** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 11:20 am

Would be people be willing to take a dive under Wayne's system? Do they feel it would be a good gamble?

I personaly don't think so. I would be afriad of a random 10 magic (from friend or foe) hitting me while I was playing dead. And than a NPC monster hitting me while I was down killing me.

That is what is not sitting well with me

Under Eric's idea, the person still has the chance to be saved.

Post by **GM-Mike** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 11:27 am

as long as you get to the fallen in a minute. What if you can't? What if it takes two minutes? In the previously named Wayne's system, the person still has a chance to be saved...

I'm really just playing devil's advocate, just so you know.

Post by **GM_Chris** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 11:34 am

Aaron you just flip flopped!

You said that under waynes system people would play dead and it would be cheesy

now your saying peple will not play dead and that is a shame.

You made your point that you perfer Erik's system

General Maximus · Post by **General Maximus** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 11:44 am

Hey, I'm just having wandering thoughts. I'm trying to look at it from all angles.

Wayne,
Would it work better if people did not have to start drawing chips until -20, but a normal person could only heal up to -10. So only a surgeon could heal a person from -19 with no chips (which makes them cool). I would like to keep the chip draws by tens.

As for rezing, You start at 2 chips and just add in the chips that you where not able to heal. To me that shows a body can only take so much damage before it can not be healed. Also, starting at -20 makes the chip draw less.

This new rule only effects deep negatives only. Hmm....

Eric, What are your thoughts?

dier_cire · Post by **dier_cire** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 11:51 am

I could see that Wayne. Every minute you take 10 damage. Could work.

The only reason I did the res thing (must draw chips unaccounted for) is to avoid the cheese of "well, he's got to draw 7 chips so we can heal him up or we could just kill him and have him draw 2". Plus, it makes being hit for around -180 equal to perm death.

As for moving the chip draw point back, I have no issue with that. If we put -1 to -9 as anyone, -10 to -19 as surgeon only, then -20+ starting chip draws, I think it'd be fine. Actually, that's one of the reasons I did it the way I did, so those numbers could be moved around

Feasiably, a surgeon with the right potions, skills, and spells could heal up to -39 without a chip draw. This would require the chip reducing potion and spell, and a lot of potions to fuel the surgeon (as they'd have mystic heal). On average though it'd always be -19, maybe -29.

General Maximus · Post by **General Maximus** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 12:20 pm

I believe the current chip reduction spell and potion works for rezing only. Correct me if I'm worng. But they could be updated to include negative healing. That's a neat idea.

Let me understand, you get your normal bleed to death time, and than every minute after you take another 10 damage. But at what point do you die? I personal would preferr to die and than take my chances with rezing than bleed out for X minutes until you could not come back. There would have to be some cap on the bleeding out time.

Post by **WayneO42** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:23 pm

As for rezing, You start at 2 chips and just add in the chips that you where not able to heal. To me that shows a body can only take so much damage before it can not be healed.

Problem is, that makes deep negatives a perma death with no hope of rez. There are only so many chips in the bag. I dont know if I like that. My thought was by adding a chip draw to the rez for a "Traumatic death" (i.e. bleeding out) it would always make it worth it to atleast try to heal the person. If they draw a red chip during healing, they are dead but can be raised without the one chip penalty. It should still be a minimum of one chip draw for every res and two if you bleed out. Potions and spells wouldnt be able to mitigate the one or two chip minimum draw.

Let me understand, you get your normal bleed to death time, and than every minute after you take another 10 damage.

Correct

But at what point do you die? I personal would preferr to die and than take my chances with rezing than bleed out for X minutes until you could not come back. There would have to be some cap on the bleeding out time

Instead of capping bleed to death time, we could cap negatives. So, once you reach say -100, you are dead. That is about 10 minutes.

dier_cire · Post by **dier_cire** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:35 pm

Actually, I like the 10 damage thing as it's almost identical to the time thing but uses what everyone is already used to for keeping track of life points. Plus, it'd just be cool to see some warrior crawl back to town like that.

As for the chip draws, I don't have an issue with the single chip thing but, the keeping the chips thing was also to encourage removal of the head and heart rules (seeing as 40 damage is a lot easier to do).

Ultimately, as it stands with the current chip deal (ie you still have to heal that damage), you'd have to deal over 340pts of damage to ensure death. (15 chips during healing, 15 chips during rezing + chip reduction potions and spells). Obviously, anything over 150 and the scales tip in favor of death. Is this a problem?

Post by **GM_Chris** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:36 pm

Problem is, that makes deep negatives a perma death with no hope of rez. There are only so many chips in the bag. I dont know if I like that. My thought was by adding a chip draw to the rez for a "Traumatic death" (i.e. bleeding out) it would always make it worth it to atleast try to heal the person. If they draw a red chip during healing, they are dead but can be raised without the one chip penalty. It should still be a minimum of one chip draw for every res and two if you bleed out. Potions and spells wouldnt be able to mitigate the one or two chip minimum draw.

We are having a math problem here. It is ALWAYS better to heal since death always require a chip draw.

if you pull a red chip or bleed out when getting healed you di.

if you pull a red chip when dead you are gone gone.

Personally I rather have two chances not just 1.

Post by **WayneO42** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:42 pm

Right, but with Eric's chip draw solution, you dont get two chances. If you needed to draw six chips to heal but pulled red on your first one, you would then need to carry those 5 undrawn chips over to the res. Thats harsh.

dier_cire · Post by **dier_cire** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:56 pm

Of course, the clever player would also use as much chip reducing measures as possible. 6 chips equals out to 2 after the double dip. As well the rate could be adjusted to half (ie 1 for 20 life) for rezing since they are seperate sections of surgery.

And for the drawing red on the first shot scenario, I'm thinking it'd be like ok, he died, but as a healer this is a mess, I'm not sure I even have all his parts. Stitches guy back together, and crosses fingers.

General Maximus · Post by **General Maximus** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:01 pm

Eric,

Can you type up the new modified version? I think I see where this is going, but want to make sure.

dier_cire · Post by **dier_cire** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:13 pm

Abilities available to anyone:
Anyone can heal someone up from -9 or less. This can be done via potions, first aid, mystic heal, etc. Any skill that allows healing in negatives.

Surgery (add in):
A surgeon may heal someone at -10 or more. A chip must be drawn for every 10 life healed beyond the original 9 that anyone may heal. (-19 is the first chip draw this way).

(wherever resurrection is, I think this is surgery too)
When bringing someone back from the dead, any damage not healed before the ressurection was started converts into an additional chip draw per -10 (or -20) life.

(death and dying)
When you are brought into negative life, for every full minute you are in negatives you take 10 more points of damage. If at any time you are below -100, you die.

(endurance and tsunotaur)
You may skip one chip draw when being healed while in negatives.

**** - you may freely adjust the numbers above to balance.

Post by **GM_Chris** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:18 pm

Im still confused.

So it will be easy to bring back anyone that is at neg 19. Basically, if youa re neg 19 you have a guarentee heal.

Then after than you have a chance for death.

I need a poll.

General Maximus · Post by **General Maximus** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:41 pm

Eric,

Why not keep endurance and tsunotaur abilities at +1 minute to bleed to death. Aka, you don't start taking damage until your bleed to death time is reached? To confusing?

Note: there is a commidity item in game that gives +1 to bleed to death time. That might have to be changed.

-19 is almost a guarentee heal if you have enough potions or people with the proper skills. Yes, a warrior could carry enough potions to bring them selves out of -19 negtives. But, I would want all potions physrepped than to prevent chesse

I'm not sure on the rez rules, I leaning with wayne, it is to harsh now that you can bleed out to -100 damage. I think the bleed out time is to long.

Maybe only bleed out should be,
Your standard bleed out time is 1-3 minutes, and than you can bleed out for an additional (2-4) minutes before you die. After your standard bleed out time is over you take 10 damage for each additional minute bleeding out until (2-4) minutes have passed. Or something like that. I'm no word smith.

My question is, why do we need to have addtional bleed out time? What effect or result are we trying to get from doing it? It's a neat idea, but why? It is throwing in more complications than benifits in my opinion.