List of Suggested Rule Changes

NewGuy · Post by **NewGuy** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 6:12 pm

I'd just suggest making a seperate topic for each proposal so they can be evaluated and commented upon individually

Kalphoenix · Post by **Kalphoenix** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 6:15 pm

I'm into discussing taking the big booms down from 30 to 20. It would solve a lot of my personal concerns. Either that, or require people to make a lot of noise when charging a big boom (Like a loud hum or something). It just seems unreasonable to me that someone can charge that much damage and in-theory no one could notice.

dier_cire · Post by **dier_cire** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 6:30 pm

someone holding their arm over their head for a minute is unnoticed?

I notice every npc that I see holding a packet over their head. In fact, it makes me target them. IF people don't like 30 magic, take Resist Magic. There were at least 3 people with it last event, due to it's usefulness. If you choose another build, you are willingly taking a risk. That's the point of the system. You can't have everything. There is always at least one thing to fear.

On the 15 from 10. It's different in this system than the one I originally posted. The one (if this same thing was done) I posted keeps the gap more from anyone and surgeons only but allows for fudge room between that and chip draw time. In Wayne's, moving the numbers around only increases the anyone heal span but surgeons only and chip draw span remains the same comparatively. And this is why I don't like the idea of moving it back. It has nothing to do with anything but mechanics.

Kalphoenix · Post by **Kalphoenix** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:52 pm

NPCs do it fine. I'm talking about players

Maybe that shouldn't even come into the discussion, but this is a pvp allowed game, so seeing someone charging a packet is kind of important, also when it's dark, you can't see it, even though one would think it should be visible.

Shea Stonebrook · Post by **Shea Stonebrook** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:09 pm

you also can NOT move with a 30...I think it balances it out nicely....it's deadly and takes a full min....hard to hit if your target moves away...you just wasted that time/charge

Post by **GM_Chris** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:15 pm

I do not think the 30's are an issue as they stand.

Currently a person with 15 soak gets hit with a 30 they are at neg 15 which as we know is easy to come back rom.

In Wayne's system you would be dead. A healer would still have the 15 second thing so it would be dramatic.

So if we removed the 30 I would like to turn it into an arcane buff. That way I add in a spell!

Anyways, I din't really care either way. What I do care about is this is a MAJOR change to the rules and I do not say that lighty since most rule changes I do not even consider rule changes.

I know that we were trying to stop rule changes. This is a core rule change therefore any change this great I think needs to go to a player vote. I do not want to hear "Oh no you changed the rules again!"

dier_cire · Post by **dier_cire** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:23 pm

If the problem is players not obeying the rules then it's not the rules that need to change. At least when we are talking about holding a packet over your head. Also, if it's dark enough to not see someone holding their hand above their head, it's probably too dark for them to throw effectively.

Maybe we need a random person watching combats to ensure everyone is doing things properly, if this is really a problem. After combats, they could ask people about questionable things. That way if people are forgetting stuff, they could be reminded so it doesn't happen in the future. Sort of like a ref in a paintball match.

Post by **GM_Chris** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:31 pm

I was kicking around the idea of a person dressed in a cool constume, kinda like death that carried a large tome. This would be a rule book with forms, tags and the like.

Maybe dresed like death would be too distracting. maybe dressed like Art would be better.

Anyways just a full time walk around person. Problem is this would require a body.

General Maximus · Post by **General Maximus** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:14 am

I have a question for people.

Wayne's new idea, what benifit does the idea bring to the game vrs Eric's idea?

Wayne's Idea is more complicated (More rules to rember) and allows for cheese easier becasue it is time based vrs straight damage. Also Wayne's idea is more deadly than Eric's idea. Also Wayne's idea has alot more rule changes, where Eric's idea adds a line to surgery and replaces the 2 potion limitation rule with a small paregraph of how negatives work now.

To me, Eric's Idea is easy to implement with minor changes in the rules. Allows all the current rules to stay the same (no need to change mystic healing) and allows for new negative healing skills, items to be brought into game with out fear of creating a new break.

Eric's idea still makes people fear deep negatives and pull out of battle before they are at 1 life, but they nessecarly have to fear the 1 hit death, just the chip bag. Wayne's idea you have fear the 1 hit death and the chip bag. It is just to deadly and i can see it leading to many more PC death's

Also, with Eric's idea, you have the choice to do a count to a fallen person to kill them, or just keep hitting them for damage and let fate (the bag) see if they live or die.

dier_cire · Post by **dier_cire** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:35 am

My thoughts on both:

I personally don't really care either way. Either is an improvement and fixes the existing hole that has plagued the forums for quite a few years. Both make much more use of the bag which is a great source of drama. So going either way we all win.

The differences as I see them:

Mine,
-1 to -9 anyone can do. This is a slidable scale to to make surgery and other healing more or less powerful.
-10 to infinity is surgery only. again the starting point is adjustable to adjust other healing power level.
Chip draws are currently every 10 points healed, however this can be adjusted without affecting the other two scales to increase or decrease the deadliness.

Wayne's,
-1 to -9 anyone can do. Can be increased or decreased, same as mine.
-10 is surgery only. There is no value higher.
Due to not needed to count past -10, chip draws are directly tied to this number. By sliding the power level of -1 to -9 you also change the chip draw starting point.
At -10, people keep track of time instead of amount of damage. Can be easier over longer periods.
At -10, one hit will kill you.
People can be brought back over 3 minutes past their bleed out time.

I like both. The only thing is that allowing for adjusting things in Wayne's would require adding a category of surgery only before the damage cap (ie something like -10 to -19 is surgery only then -20 is stop the counting point).

Post by **GM-Mike** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:37 am

I'm not convinced that Wayne's idea is any more complicated than Eric's, nor do I think that Wayne's idea is more deadly. Chris is correct in that we are ultimately going to decide how deadly it is. With Wayne's idea, easy monsters would stop hitting once someone has fallen and end of epic plot monsters will not. In Eric's, easy monsters may or may not keep hitting after someone has fallen and end of epic plot monsters will beat on, beat on, beat on, drag off, chop off heads, and consume. Yeah, it takes more with Eric's idea but if we are really intent on killing someone, we will (and, for anyone new to the game I will just add that we are generally not really intent on killing someone).

I do agree that Eric's idea causes fewer rules changes, which is definitely a bonus. I actually think in the end, more people will die in his system (shocker I know, I just think differently than everyone else). The reason for that is this: we as monsters will still have to beat on prone bodies to make it scary, and the more we beat on you, the worst it will be for coming back. We will not be able to keep track of how often we have hit you. With Wayne's system, we know that the person is down and with each passing second, it gets a little more scary for that person so the plot involves keeping the healers from healing for as long as possible, which is intriguing.

All of that said, I am not sure which version I prefer, just pointing out how I see things. I'm not even completely convinced the system needs changing (don't hit me!)

Post by **GM_Chris** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:41 am

I think I am done with this thread unless some new idea pops up.

I agree completely with Mike.

I think we might put it to a player vote and see what system wins or doesn't win if it is voted to keep everything the same.

dier_cire · Post by **dier_cire** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:51 am

Course, you also have to factor PvP, not just PvM. Wayne's is way more deadly on the PvP side.

As for not changing, honestly, you'll just end up right back here the next time a new healing skill is introduced and breaks things again.

Post by **GM_Chris** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:56 am

Yeah I understand that there might be a fundamental problem with the system but after 6 years we could be stuck kinda like the US Tax code.

I so want a flat tax. Why cant we all pay 10 or 15% flat income tax! WHY!

Post by **GM-Mike** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:08 am

Yes, Wayne's is potentially far more deadly on the PvP side, agreed. However, four PCs did just take out the town using the old least deadly of all system so I'm not sure how much weight to put on that.