Surgery

[GM-Mike]

I was writing mine while you were writing yours. I don't care if we rewrite it that way, but I am still trying to figure out why the way it is written would cause confusion.

[dier_cire]

I guess I can see how you could view it that way but it's way outside of normal human context. Read as a whole, your thoery fails.

Healing 10 life is a paragraph, which takes one minute. "Additionally" you can do a bunch of other crap...

This whole idea is really grasping at straws. Simple rule, if you have to stretch your imagination and the limits of the english lanuage to to get what you want, you've gone too far.

Cole, let me help with the healer bag concept:
1 minute time, draw from bag A (1 out of 10 it's red)
1 minute time, draw from bag B (1 out of 10 it's red)
1 minute time, draw from bag C (1 out of 10 it's red)
1 minute time, draw from bag A (1 out of 9 it's red)
1 minute time, draw from bag B (1 out of 9 it's red)
1 minute time, draw from bag C (1 out of 9 it's red)

you've drawn 6 chips and had a max of 1 out of 9 chance. If it were one bag, you'd have 1 out of 4 vs 1 out of 8. Even if it were a straight 3 reds, 27 whites in one bag, it's still better odds (due to each chip drawn affecting the total change in percent less).

[cole45]

Nope, I got it. I am being a nugget.

MULTIPLE DRAWS.

[dier_cire]

Nope, I got it. I am being a nugget.

MULTIPLE DRAWS

fixed it for ya. In your defense, you were correct in that the first draw has no benefit.

[NewGuy]

It says three additional surgeons, that would be 4 total so:

1 in 10 .1
1 in 10 .1
1 in 9 .111
1 in 9 .111
1 in 8 .125
1 in 8 .125
1 in 7 .143
1 in 7 .143
1 in 6 .166

for the full 9 points (in total thats a 64% chance of death)
with three surgeons a 66% chance of death
with two, 70% chance
with one surgeon, it's a 90% chance, so there's the hard numbers on the benefits

EDITed to fix my math, thanks for point out my error

[cole45]

A Healer can heal an additional 9 life points while performing surgery but there is a risk of death. To heal these additional 9 life points, the healer must first have a "Healer's bag". The healer’s bag is an out of game pouch that contains 10 red and white markers or chips. The bag must contain at least one red chip and at least one white chip. The healer's bag is also used in the resurrection process. For surgery, Chips are taken from the bag at a rate of one per minute. A white chip heals 1 life point while a red chip instantly kills the patient. Up to 3 additional surgeons can assist. When a surgeon assists they can offer their Healer’s bag to the injured person. The injured subject must pick the chips from the bag offered to him. The drawing of chips from the healer’s bag is meant to simulate the effects of a very critical and delicate surgery. Once a chip is drawn, it is not returned to the bag until the surgery is completed. For each chip drawn a surgeon may also administer one additional potion to the dying character.

I think the source of confusion is the use of heal.

To heal these additional 9 life points(does that mean mechnically giving nine life points?If it does, then.... A white chip heals 1 life point while a red chip instantly kills the patient...is extra.

it doesn't really say you have to draw one chip PER life point. it says, you have to draw a chip to heal 9 life points.

[dier_cire]

wtf math is that? I don't remember that in any of my Stat classes. Last I checked you don't just add probabilities together.

But yes, you can have 4 total...

But, each Surgeon can perform their "additional" portion of surgery to it's limit, so you could have up to 26 life total in bonuses...

Is this topic dead yet? Two pages is kinda long.

[GM-Mike]

I agree with Reid. I have a Ph.D. in psychologyand have taken several higher end stat classes and have no idea where your numbers are coming from. I'll happily concede that it could be clearer--everything always can be, but I think you guys are reaching just a touch

[NewGuy]

yes, the problem is that it says one chip per minute and doesn't give a time for each lp being a minute, saying each white chip is a heal of one is a separate thought, by this logic.

I'll try and make this simple and clear.

I'll concede that yes it says the skill heals 10, and take one minute, thank you for pointing that out.

It does say that in order to heal the additional 9 you need a healer's bag. The train of thought is broken once it breaks to describe a healers bag.

After explaining what the healer's is it says in surgery chips are drawn on per minute. While this is in the same paragraph as the additional 9, it is a different train of thought as either the initial 10, or the additional 9.

It does say the chips are drawn for surgery (no mention that it is the additional 9 only)

It does not say that the additional 9 are healed one at a time

It does not say that the additional 9 are healed one per minute

It does not say that the 1 lp from the white chip drawn is part of the additional 9

and just to play devil's advocate, if separate paragraphs are to be taken completely separate, those extra 9 don't specify that they have to be in the negatives. That's actually not something players would do, as you can heal to full in 4 minutes with risk, but I'm sure I could find a way to perform surgery on the unwilling in order to red chip them. In fact, they are still unconscious at 0 lp and thus can't resist my performing surgery, and with a 9 red chip bag I have a good chance of success.

I believe the explanation of what the healer's bag should be separate of the skill.

I believe the explanation should explain it's use in surgery, and then it's use in resurrection.

Then again, I believe there should be a high level of redundancy in the rule book. I was performing a resurrection and knew the book mentioned that another could donate their essence to prevent the recipient from starving upon completion, but didn't know it was in the empath Gather Essence section, and I was searching Mend the Vessel, and Death and Dying, and other places that I thought it could have been. Such things I'd like to see in all applicable places. I'll write that up separately to try and revert back to the topic though. Sorry for the divergence.

[GM-Mike]

Thank-you. I understand what you are saying. I still think the rules for surgery are clear but I see how they could be clearer.

[Torakhan]

Thank-you. I understand what you are saying. I still think the rules for surgery are clear but I see how they could be clearer.

Clearer than clear? o.O Sorry, I HAD to respond to that one. I'll back off now.

[GM-Mike]

lol