Rule Clarifications

Nelkie · Post by **Nelkie** » Mon Jun 28, 2004 2:32 pm

I have been humbeled. I found the the verbage you quoted. My fault.

A helpful idea is maybe highlight or make it a bullet point since it sounds there is confusion on how to create potions.

Peace420 · Post by **Peace420** » Mon Jun 28, 2004 3:22 pm

I'll go through my available time from the last few events and get rid of any extra potions that I may have.

Peace420 · Post by **Peace420** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 9:30 am

Can someone please explain the poison thing as at least 2 of the alchemist IG have no idea what it is?

Tonia Glowski · Post by **Tonia Glowski** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 10:49 am

I would like to submit for consideration:

An alchemist can be concurrently working on/brewing a NUMBER of potions equal to his/her level.

This suggestion is made for two reasons:

#1 - There are only FOUR events a year and we can only brew them IN-GAME. Right now, Craftsmen and Alchemists are the most hamstrung with the ruling that all crafting/brewing must be done in game.

#2 - The limit is artificial. I don't understand why I can have 4 Cure Wounds potions to "stand in an open jar until appropriate potency is achieved" but I can't have 4 Resurrection potions "sealed in a jar and buried in soft earth for 24 hours." Once you are done with the active ingredient and mixing time, I would argue that there should be no limit on how many potions you can do at once, unless there is an activity required during the brewing time. My contention is that if someone wants to pay $20 and spend ONE of their FOUR entire weekends pumping out alchemies, then let them.

I do understand the desire to balance it, though. If you want to make sure they aren't pumping out Resurrection potions around the clock, then LIMIT the components, not the activity. In addition to having to sit around making alchemies all day, alchemists have to collect the components, too. Take advantage of your component system for once and make the components worth something, like the rest of your tokens. It will add to your game and be done with minimal effort on your part, other than to say, "Only 1 Veiled Moon component is going out this gather..."

My two cents...

Peace420 · Post by **Peace420** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 1:19 pm

<rant>
Here Here! As it stands an alchemist could produce 4 4th level potions a year! That's ridiculously small compared to what the arcane can accomplish in a matter of 2 hours. I understand that they're different systems but the disparity is huge. Not to mention that unless the arcane is much more limited in what they could possibly accomplish (which I highly doubt) the nature of alchemy already puts it well below what arcane is. I know for a fact that if I asked for a potion that could teleport me, or could rain down fire at will until I decided to end the spell causing 5 vorpal unresistable to everyone on the field I'd be laughed at so hard that there'd be many hernias. I've been thinking about how to appraoch this and not sound like I'm bitching but I haven't come up with one, so here it is.

You're hamstringing certain disciplines, I know that arcanes are supposed to be powerful and that they broke the world with their power, but that was supposed to be multiple arcanes working together, that fire spell as well as carapace is well beyond what any other discipline could possibly fathom to do with their skills. If it weren't for role playing reasons I would have switched to arcane long ago. I agree whole heartedly with using the resource system more as opposed to limiting in such a stifling way what the alchemist is capable of accomplishing.

Bitch #2
You guys once said that you were not going to favor good over evil in the rules but with doubling a poison's level you have done just that. Not to mention that to this point PC's have only been poisoned by NPC monsters. 3 years of play and not 1 PC death that could be attributed to poison. The fact that poison takes a full minute before is affects the person is enough of a drawback. Instead of doubling the poison's level why not do as it once was, where the cure poison was double the alchemists level or where the cure is +1 level or something like that.

</rant>

Tonia Glowski · Post by **Tonia Glowski** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 1:43 pm

p.s. I've suggested not limiting alchemy at all, save for components... my above suggestion is ONLY if you feel the necessity to limit it. I see no reason why I couldn't have 10 holes dug in the earth to "brew" my alchemy, as long as I spent the 5 hours it would take to mix and craft them.

Think of it! I have to spend 5 UNINTERRUPTED hours doing nothing but sitting at a table, using my mortar and pestle to act out grinding up herbs, etc. and roleplaying making alchemies if I wanted to make 10 Resurrection Potions, for example. FIVE HOURS missed of In Game play if I wanted to do that! Not to mention have to get 30 scarce herbs and 10 uncommon herbs! Also, craftsmen are allowed to make things by proxy. Plot does not require craftsmen to sit there for the 3 hours it takes for a craftsman to make a helm and they're allowed to make the helm WHILE THEY'RE SLEEPING!

Please consider what Eric and I are saying... this is completely underbalanced...

dier_cire · Post by **dier_cire** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 1:49 pm

Finish arcane first then worry about alchemy... it isn't broke yet. Honestly, it isn't that bad, it's responsible for saving multiple characters and was extremely useful last event.

As far as components, I'm in favor of completely removing them except for questing ones (just roll the time into preperation). They aren't a necessary commodity and get used up too frequently to warrant tags. There's enough other things that need to be finished without throwing more into the mix. This is for both arcane and alchemy.

5 finished parts is far better than 15 half finished...

Tonia Glowski · Post by **Tonia Glowski** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 1:52 pm

WayneO42 wrote:The only major change to alchemy is poisons. The level of the potion is twice the level of the poison. So, a poison 1 is a level two potion and a poison 2 is a level 4 potion. Higher level poisons can be obtained via rare herbs. I believe everyone who has a poison recipe has had it adjusted. If anyone was missed, PM me. Not like anyone uses poison's or anything.

I don't have this adjustment on my recipe, nor in my rulebook. If you are indeed going to keep this, please PM me with the appropriate changes, and I'll fix mine. Also, Wayne, I am going to PM/email you with all of the recipes that I have (as well as some research). Please take a look at my currently existing recipes to tell me if they are all correct, if not, I'll tell the people I got them from.

Thanks!

Tonia Glowski · Post by **Tonia Glowski** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 1:55 pm

dier_cire wrote:Finish arcane first then worry about alchemy... it isn't broke yet.

5 finished parts is far better than 15 half finished...

That's sort of our argument, Eric, it is broken, to the extent that it is way underbalanced.

And while alchemy did help save lives and fight monsters, it's gone forever and several of us used up our ENTIRE stockpiles - not all of us benefitted from the time when you were able to make alchemies between events.

And by the way, from my understanding, Arcane WAS finished until people wanted to start adding things. Just like any system, the magic/artisan system will be constantly developing, just like technology does (even if in primitive form).

Lao · Post by **Lao** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 2:13 pm

I have to agree with what Tonia and Atrum are saying here.

Looking at the way things worked last game, and looking over the rules it seems arcane is vastly overpowering Everything else in the game.

Perhaps the solution isnt to increase everything else's power, but may be to tone back what Arcane can do.

Just a thought,
Evan

Peace420 · Post by **Peace420** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 2:13 pm

I would only suggest tagging the rare and magical compnonents not the common or uncommon for both arcane and alchemy. They would get used up about as much as steel or hide.

dier_cire · Post by **dier_cire** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 9:50 pm

We never used the potion inbetween time to mass stock potions (at least to excess). That was pointed out on the forum before it happened. It's just we have always had like 4 alchemists running around each event. Arcanes we've needed less of mainly due to there being no spells. Now with spell research finally coming in the two are more balanced for numbers. Course, since potion research is up and rolling, we may have to swap some arcane back to alchemy for the extra potions. Point being, balancing for a non power gamed group just makes those that are highly organized overpowered. (Who remembers when Ka could swing 8?)

Before making alchemy overpowered get creative with potions (why do you think arcane became cool?). There are already some really nice low level ones out. If anything, I'd lower the time it takes to make higher level potions instead of making it so you can make as many as you want of any level (since then you'd only need one alchemist, which would combine well with sage). Course what do I care, if alchemy gets cooler, it's just more stuff for me to play with...

Nelkie · Post by **Nelkie** » Thu Jul 08, 2004 6:55 am

Ok,

I agree that slapping posions down is silly. Currently with the posion change a 4th level alchimist can make a posion 2 but can make a cure posion 8. Does this make sense? What is wrong with an alchmist making posion 4? The cures are easier and quiker to make, not to menition you can heal psoisn damage and you have healers around to cure the posions. A posion 2 is a joke. It takes about 6 1/2 hours to make a cure posion 2 potion and only requires first level alchmey. If there is a healer around the person will only take about 4 damage. That will only drop new characters. Let alchmist create posion 4 potions and let people fear them.

As for alchemy being undered powered, we'll it is a toss up. I disagree with the componets idea limiting the number of potions being created. It adds more complexity to the game and it is another thing the NPC's have to track. I agree with tags for quest herbs, and assume thats how it is ran now.

If it is the feel of the group more potions need to be made during an event, than here is the ideas I have that are simple, but effective.
An alchmist can have have a number of potions brewing at the same time equal to the alchmist level. AKA if you are a 4th level alchmist you can have 4 4th level potions brewing at one time.
the other idea is to lower the brew times for potions.
Have alchmey labs that cut brew time down.

There is about 39 hours in game for potins to be made. A first level alchmist in one sessiion can make 6 cure light 1 potions with a total of 1 1/2 hours of in game time collecting and mixing items together. In my opinion an alcmist can mix, collect, etc during breaks, sleeping, eating, etc.. We pay money to have fun, not sit around pretending to mix herbs together. If you need to take a quick nap, eat a meal, that is the time an alchmist is working on their potions. If a craftsman can do it, why can't an alchmist. As long as the alchmist is not doing in game activies while collecting and mixing herbs, than I see no problem with it. Aka you can't stop mixing the herbs and go adventuring until the postion is created, or the alhmist must start over again.

Ok, every one is bitching about how powerful an arcane is. true it can be powerful, but it is the most time consuming and boring disapline out there. First, you can not store any spell unlike alchmy which can be stored and stock piled from event to event. An arcane can not wear any armor or use a shield while casting. If an arcane gets hit during casting their spell fails, if an alchmist is hit, they take damage and can contuine on. Most spells have draw backs, alchmy potions usualy don't. Both alchmey recipies and spells take quest herbs to use. You must roleplay the casting of a spell for the entire time.Yes arcane can be very powerful and the current spells in game need to be better defined so people undertand what can be done with them. But once that is completed, arcane should be on par with the alcmist. But that is my opinion.

Peace420 · Post by **Peace420** » Thu Jul 08, 2004 9:48 am

You can only be as creative as what the NPC's have decided is within the scope of alchemy, I can tell you that at least 1 first level spell is not possible for an alchemist. I've been researching it for nearly 2 years now and just was told that it isn't possible and it is one that is very useful IG. Granted they just decided what alchemy and arcane are capable of doing. And as I stated above I highly doubt that arcane is more limited than alchemy in what they can do. I'm not looking to overpower alchemy but being able to create 1 4th level potion an event is quite underpowered IMO.

Ok, every one is bitching about how powerful an arcane is. true it can be powerful, but it is the most time consuming and boring disapline out there

LOL, no way man, try sitting at a table trying to roleplay fixing armor for 2hours + 2 times last event. There is no more boring or time consuming discipline than craftsman, very useful, but extremely boring.

Nelkie · Post by **Nelkie** » Thu Jul 08, 2004 12:16 pm

LOL, You do have a point with Craftsman. You where sitting there hitting your chainmail every time I came into the Inn.

Maybe we need to bring a dummy and say that it is a person using one of their time based skills and go NPC until the time is up. Great if you are repairng those 20 damaged armor's.

Rule Clarifications

Wayne

Alchemy

LOL