Yeah, I understand that, I helped test the rules before there was even an event. I also see how much trouble we have solving plots when we have all the hints. And I'm expressing my personal thought on how I think it's a bad idea. I think, no, I know they understand that as well.
This event especially I'm expecting to be VERY VERY time sensitive, much like the ED event was. I'd hate to have seen how that event turned out if only one person in the game had the possibility of knowing that we needed to craft a special weapon.
Sage Hint - > NPC Camp
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Atrum Draconus
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It's up to the possessor of the information whether or not to share it, and how, but I like to think that all the sage hints would be commonly dispersed in order to benefit us all, as we may not know what our hints go to. The GMs may have even designed it so that a plot puzzle REQUIRES this, as the solution is in two separate hints...
Tricksy GMs.
Tricksy GMs.
Yes, we are testing. This is NOT going to be a sage heavy event so it is good to test with.
Here is the thing. hints were never meant to be used for plots. For example, Herb came into town can I get a hint on that.
Hints were meant for: We recieved this puzzle and we need help figuring it out.
Lore turned into us giving info on just about everything.
What will this do? Well each sage will now get "something" about the event. They can choose to talk with each other or not. This "Something" will be ALOT more meaty than what they are use to.
The sages can then swap info or not, and I will be creative so I make sure anything I want in does infact get in.
Now as for info on plots which is your major concern. Well....Bring sages on the plots with you and you can get info on it if there is anything to get.
Here is the thing. hints were never meant to be used for plots. For example, Herb came into town can I get a hint on that.
Hints were meant for: We recieved this puzzle and we need help figuring it out.
Lore turned into us giving info on just about everything.
What will this do? Well each sage will now get "something" about the event. They can choose to talk with each other or not. This "Something" will be ALOT more meaty than what they are use to.
The sages can then swap info or not, and I will be creative so I make sure anything I want in does infact get in.
Now as for info on plots which is your major concern. Well....Bring sages on the plots with you and you can get info on it if there is anything to get.
Chris
I be one of the gamemasters so e-mail me questions if you have them
I be one of the gamemasters so e-mail me questions if you have them
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Esmerelda
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Honestly, I'm looking forward to the test. I think it will put an interesting twist on things. You'll certainly get my feedback after the event. And BTW, thanks for going to the effort to put this together!
Lady Esmerelda Harrison,
Queen of the Kingdom of Haven
"What if in order to save everything you hold dear, you have to become everything you hate?"
Queen of the Kingdom of Haven
"What if in order to save everything you hold dear, you have to become everything you hate?"
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Atrum Draconus
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No, my major concern is that there will be some piece of critical information that gets lost in the shuffle with this system and that it creates a system where you WON'T give anyone else that info, change that and I'd think it was a really good system. You guys should know best that sometimes multiple sages end up coming in for the same hints.
As for sharing, BWAHAHAHAHAAHAHA, maybe you should play the game and then talk about hoping people share information.
Some of us have been hoping that for 5 years now, and some of us have been hiding stuff for 5 years now. Most of us have done both at times and still do. But there is still the chance that someone else could get that info from NPC camp.
As for sharing, BWAHAHAHAHAAHAHA, maybe you should play the game and then talk about hoping people share information.
Some of us have been hoping that for 5 years now, and some of us have been hiding stuff for 5 years now. Most of us have done both at times and still do. But there is still the chance that someone else could get that info from NPC camp.Atrum Draconus
House Draconus
Hand of King Chimeron Draconus
ANNOSUS DRACONUS!
House Draconus
Hand of King Chimeron Draconus
ANNOSUS DRACONUS!
There will be nothing critical left out because there is never a sage "needed". A sage hint is simply a help.
For example we do not put in a plot and then OOPS no sage so I guess you cannot do the plot. Or you need dispell magic, BUT no witch hunter so no plot.
A hint or information is not NEEDED.
To give you some more faith. There will be a story handed out as a sage hint. This same story, because it is absolutely needed for a plot will be comming in via NPC. Now it is one thing to hear it, and entirely different thing to read it, especially since you may not be around when the NPC shows up.
Furthermore there will be other things handed out which will be esentially hints about that story, but are definitly not needed to figure out the plot.
This event will all be about choices. Alot of them will not be right or wrong. Each will give you a different end event outcome.
For example we do not put in a plot and then OOPS no sage so I guess you cannot do the plot. Or you need dispell magic, BUT no witch hunter so no plot.
A hint or information is not NEEDED.
To give you some more faith. There will be a story handed out as a sage hint. This same story, because it is absolutely needed for a plot will be comming in via NPC. Now it is one thing to hear it, and entirely different thing to read it, especially since you may not be around when the NPC shows up.
Furthermore there will be other things handed out which will be esentially hints about that story, but are definitly not needed to figure out the plot.
This event will all be about choices. Alot of them will not be right or wrong. Each will give you a different end event outcome.
Chris
I be one of the gamemasters so e-mail me questions if you have them
I be one of the gamemasters so e-mail me questions if you have them
I would also like to emphasize that critical information will come in multiple ways, just as it normally does. The sages will get better, more in depth information that will certainly help speed things along, but we wouldn't leave you hanging should no sages come to the event. We as GMs will give you every opportunity to succeed, every reason there could possibly be to be hopeful of a positive outcome...
And then we'll kill you all.
And then we'll kill you all.
Maybe that is the reason TO keep it.NewGuy wrote:And this is a test game, I do believe. If it turns out good, they'll keep it, possibly.
If it turns out horrible, with lots of complaints, and everyone's angry.......blood and feces everywhere......Oh the Humanity.............and then nobody wants to come back, they'll probably not keep it.
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Kalphoenix
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Sages are currently a one-trick pony: Recall
I like this idea of Lore at the beginning of the event and only getting hints when on specific plots. I don't see it quite taking care of this one-trick problem, but it definitely makes them more interesting.
It creates a roleplaying situation, which I am all for: "So, heard anything interesting lately?" rather than "Get some sages together for a sage hint on this."
Now, hopefully I don't sound too critical here, I'm just trying to give my honest opinion:
Basic Sage - It's pretty basic, that's for sure and doesn't have the draw of any of the other paths. Also, if you are a newbie sage, not much to do in-game at basic level, you're pretty much stuck to using your 1st level discipline skill.
Research...can be incredible or incredibly useless, so it's hit or miss. Great if you like to research random things (I do, actually...not being sarcastic there), pretty much required if you are an Arcane, Alchemist or Craftsmen, helpful if you have investigate, since these skills can be paired.
Read/Write 2 Languages...useless. I haven't seen languages utilized in the three years I have played except when decipher script is in the mix or for loose flavor. Also, folks have a hard time remembering that they can't read, so unless the words are actually in elvish, guthrie, etc there is a good chance they will accidentally read said missive anyway. Also, if it is in another language, PCs have to go to NPC camp forgoing what is currently trying to be done with lore and recall being relegated to plots. I can't think of a good solution for this. It's fun to say you can speak all these languages, but they really serve no purpose.
Utilize Resource...a pretty helpful ability. I really have nothing critical to say about it except that I'm not sure if it's worth putting 40 points into both Research and Read/Write and then another 20 to get it if you are going cross-class.
Advanced sage isn't very impressive and only really gets better (Not great, just better) if you add to it with mimic. Tactics is ok, but I still don't see why it couldn't have just been called combat reflexes and have been 2 points instead of one.
Waylay...I don't really see how this fits into sage (I guess it kind of fits that old-school D&D bard feel a little bit), but if it has to stay in and at one point, it would look better in basic sage rather than Advanced. It would also give basic sages something else to do.
Administer...generally helpful, but only because most sages I know take level one alchemy to brew their own potions.
Augment is good, but not so good that it makes up for the rest of Advanced Sage. Fits well with sages and the Jack-of-all Trade concept. Maybe if the list of things that could be Augmented was expanded, it would be more interesting or make up for the rest of the level abilities.
The only thing I could thing of that might make advanced sage better might be some kind of resource acquisition...drop waylay to basic sage and add something like this. I guess I would have to think about it some more.
Master Sage pales when looking at the other master path abilities of other classes, which is somewhat the point, since they are supposed to have variable abilities. I understand, but...
Identify Magic Item really only seems like something that was put in to flesh out Master Sage...it really seems to fit Empaths better (with their innate grasp of magic), or judicious use of the research skill.
Decipher Script...fine. It fits with the sage. I don't see it coming into play all that frequently as far as usefulness goes, but it's pretty much a free-language pass given enough time, so that's cool.
Recall...the bread and butter of the sage, their one trick, as it were. This is pretty much the reason why people play sages or want others to play sages.
Mimic...Taking mimic's armor penalties off and dropping the time required to mimic a skill would put the sage more in the category of "Jack-of-all" trades that I was told was the original concept for sage. It would also make the current low-key abilities more justified.
I like this idea of Lore at the beginning of the event and only getting hints when on specific plots. I don't see it quite taking care of this one-trick problem, but it definitely makes them more interesting.
It creates a roleplaying situation, which I am all for: "So, heard anything interesting lately?" rather than "Get some sages together for a sage hint on this."
Now, hopefully I don't sound too critical here, I'm just trying to give my honest opinion:
Basic Sage - It's pretty basic, that's for sure and doesn't have the draw of any of the other paths. Also, if you are a newbie sage, not much to do in-game at basic level, you're pretty much stuck to using your 1st level discipline skill.
Research...can be incredible or incredibly useless, so it's hit or miss. Great if you like to research random things (I do, actually...not being sarcastic there), pretty much required if you are an Arcane, Alchemist or Craftsmen, helpful if you have investigate, since these skills can be paired.
Read/Write 2 Languages...useless. I haven't seen languages utilized in the three years I have played except when decipher script is in the mix or for loose flavor. Also, folks have a hard time remembering that they can't read, so unless the words are actually in elvish, guthrie, etc there is a good chance they will accidentally read said missive anyway. Also, if it is in another language, PCs have to go to NPC camp forgoing what is currently trying to be done with lore and recall being relegated to plots. I can't think of a good solution for this. It's fun to say you can speak all these languages, but they really serve no purpose.
Utilize Resource...a pretty helpful ability. I really have nothing critical to say about it except that I'm not sure if it's worth putting 40 points into both Research and Read/Write and then another 20 to get it if you are going cross-class.
Advanced sage isn't very impressive and only really gets better (Not great, just better) if you add to it with mimic. Tactics is ok, but I still don't see why it couldn't have just been called combat reflexes and have been 2 points instead of one.
Waylay...I don't really see how this fits into sage (I guess it kind of fits that old-school D&D bard feel a little bit), but if it has to stay in and at one point, it would look better in basic sage rather than Advanced. It would also give basic sages something else to do.
Administer...generally helpful, but only because most sages I know take level one alchemy to brew their own potions.
Augment is good, but not so good that it makes up for the rest of Advanced Sage. Fits well with sages and the Jack-of-all Trade concept. Maybe if the list of things that could be Augmented was expanded, it would be more interesting or make up for the rest of the level abilities.
The only thing I could thing of that might make advanced sage better might be some kind of resource acquisition...drop waylay to basic sage and add something like this. I guess I would have to think about it some more.
Master Sage pales when looking at the other master path abilities of other classes, which is somewhat the point, since they are supposed to have variable abilities. I understand, but...
Identify Magic Item really only seems like something that was put in to flesh out Master Sage...it really seems to fit Empaths better (with their innate grasp of magic), or judicious use of the research skill.
Decipher Script...fine. It fits with the sage. I don't see it coming into play all that frequently as far as usefulness goes, but it's pretty much a free-language pass given enough time, so that's cool.
Recall...the bread and butter of the sage, their one trick, as it were. This is pretty much the reason why people play sages or want others to play sages.
Mimic...Taking mimic's armor penalties off and dropping the time required to mimic a skill would put the sage more in the category of "Jack-of-all" trades that I was told was the original concept for sage. It would also make the current low-key abilities more justified.
Sage is the funniest path ever for me. I have never heard such wide disparities in perceptions about anything. Literally, I have had several litanies like this one telling me how the Sage sucks (this normally comes from non-sages incidentally) and then I have had more than one person tell me how powerful the sage is, almost to the point of being overpowered. Most people, as probably does the truth, lies somewhere in the middle.
I agree that read languages does not come into play much however. It's on par with the rogue's pick locks skill. We just don't do it much, but perhaps we will in the future. There's going to be one event where the only skills that will be helpful will be read languages, pick locks, spot, disguise, and disenchant
I agree that read languages does not come into play much however. It's on par with the rogue's pick locks skill. We just don't do it much, but perhaps we will in the future. There's going to be one event where the only skills that will be helpful will be read languages, pick locks, spot, disguise, and disenchant
As you know I dissagree, but I think I dissagree because I see the sage differently than you. You take augment, mimic, and the advanced path and the sage can boost 1 ability pretty well.
Maybe it would be helpfull if you posted what skills you think should go into sage.
Maybe it would be helpfull if you posted what skills you think should go into sage.
Chris
I be one of the gamemasters so e-mail me questions if you have them
I be one of the gamemasters so e-mail me questions if you have them
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General Maximus
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I pesonaly like the sage. I loved playing a sage warrior politician. That was Arthos. It was great, I could heal, fight, knock out, solve pulzes, and fill in the required skill the party needs. The sage is the most verstile path out there. When you added in ones disapline to the sage other abilities, you get a great character.
I personaly think mimic should not change because of certian skill combo's. The armor limitation helps keep it balaced. Think of Arthos running around in full plate, shield, and throwing 8 magic's and swinging for 2. Thats what you can have if you remove the armor penalities from mimic.
Pairing up mimic ability with the augement ability is the bread and butter of the sage. If people are looking for more power or umpf for the sage, lower the mimic time to 5 minutes. That will give the sage alot more veristility
I see all the paths pertty balanced and useful, that includes the sage.
I personaly think mimic should not change because of certian skill combo's. The armor limitation helps keep it balaced. Think of Arthos running around in full plate, shield, and throwing 8 magic's and swinging for 2. Thats what you can have if you remove the armor penalities from mimic.
Pairing up mimic ability with the augement ability is the bread and butter of the sage. If people are looking for more power or umpf for the sage, lower the mimic time to 5 minutes. That will give the sage alot more veristility
I see all the paths pertty balanced and useful, that includes the sage.