Sage Hint - > NPC Camp

Post by **GM_Chris** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 1:53 pm

We as GM's will talk about it, but this event may be a great play test.

Post by **GM-Mike** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 4:08 pm

Steve, Chris is not taking away the Sage's ability to identify a magic item. That's a separate skill all together. He's saying that you can't send all of your tough warriors into a cave to retrieve a puzzle and bring it back, have it solved in the safety of town, and then send all of the tough warriors back in to finish the cave. If you want to be able to have hints in the cave, send in the Sage with you.

Malphus · Post by **Malphus** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 4:15 pm

I guess I could see that.

Esmerelda · Post by **Esmerelda** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 6:47 pm

I like the ideas thrown out by Chris and Wayne. Hopefully it doesn't put too much strain on the GM staff to come up with stuff before the events. Also, by randomizing who gets what, it fosters a sense of the sages having to work together to figure out what's really going on out there.

dier_cire · Post by **dier_cire** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 7:53 pm

What about sages that show up late?

NewGuy · Post by **NewGuy** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:49 pm

dier_cire wrote:What about sages that show up late?

Events change throughout based on PC actions. Depending on how late the sage is, it may allow for corrections from game-on hints

e.g. We find a talisman
(it is a lost heirloom of the family of one of the frequent NPC visitors, by returning it to them, we gain their trust and a new supply source)

the game-on clue says "it bares a family crest which seems familiar to all"

we respond by spending hours talking about which one of our families it belongs to, what magical properties it has, and ultimately hide it from the NPC every time they show up out of avarice

The late-coming sage gets the hint "the talisman doesn't belong to any of the havanites" encouraging us to show it to the NPCs

(okay, it's a really bad example, but it was off the top of my head, and at 12:45am)

dier_cire · Post by **dier_cire** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 7:21 am

The GMs have time to come up with hints on the fly in the middle of an event?

Post by **GM_Chris** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 7:32 am

A pregame hint would not be a one liner like you mention. It will be more like a little story and its purpose would be to completely eliminate sages showing up to GM camp for sage hints on anything except for puzzles.

Atrum Draconus · Post by **Atrum Draconus** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 12:47 pm

I just wanted to say, the thought that sages are non-coms is a little off IMO. Yes they are traditionally thought of as non-com is true but they get an armor bonus and ko bonus and such. They get combat bonuses, if they choose not to use them thats their choice.

The GM's certainly work very hard to make sure that non-coms have things to do, now if you have chosen to make your character a character that never leaves the Inn at all then you have limited your chances for interaction and being a part of plots considerably. Get5ting uppity with the GM's for not catering to people that choose to limit their possible interactions so much is ridiculous. Thats like saying you're going to go to Cedar Point but you aren't going to ride any rides and then complain that managment isn't making enough of an attempt to cater to the person that doesn't like rides.

I stopped reading around page 3 and read this page but it seems that there is going to be time spent before game on giving stories to the sages to be used for sage hints and then any more hints would cause the sage to have to venture out. I like this idea alot. Sages aren't supposed to be omniscient and the fact that they could find out things about objects and other things without ever going anywhere never made sense to me. we are in a post apocolyptic world, we don't have a library of congress, the internets, and books are extremely rare. I think our instant acces to info has made some people forget how much of a pain it was even when I was a kid. OH NO, I have to leave my house and actually go somewhere to research!!! Sages would indeed have to venture out sometimes, perhaps to talk to someone who might have a clue, to gather some hints or info from the site etc.

Tullus · Post by **Tullus** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:48 pm

I would like to apologize about impling that those reading the thread were close minded. That seemed to ruffle a few feathers. Though I stand by my statement of the rule still seeming somewhat odd. Yet, if it's been tested both ways, I have no problem with whatever had been finally decided.

Malphus · Post by **Malphus** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:55 pm

Atrum Draconus wrote:
I stopped reading around page 3 and read this page but it seems that there is going to be time spent before game on giving stories to the sages to be used for sage hints and then any more hints would cause the sage to have to venture out. I like this idea alot. Sages aren't supposed to be omniscient and the fact that they could find out things about objects and other things without ever going anywhere never made sense to me. we are in a post apocolyptic world, we don't have a library of congress, the internets, and books are extremely rare. I think our instant acces to info has made some people forget how much of a pain it was even when I was a kid. OH NO, I have to leave my house and actually go somewhere to research!!! Sages would indeed have to venture out sometimes, perhaps to talk to someone who might have a clue, to gather some hints or info from the site etc.

You have to decide what aspect of the game is being embraced. It is a fantasy game as well as a post apokalyptic game. In a "real" version of Haven, sages would have to journey to God-knows where to get information and go on all sorts of crazy missions to get hints. There are a couple of things in play, here. The Sage has devoted a huge chunk of their points on getting those hints. Other people can whip ass, or cast powerful spells, or do rogue isht. The Sage gets a hint. In my sensibility it is cool to have a character know something beyond the scope of what others think they "should be able to know". That is what makes the Sage so flippin cool. They could know anything.

Atrum Draconus · Post by **Atrum Draconus** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 3:14 pm

Well I think if you look at it as a medieval fantasy game or a post apocolyptic game, either way my assesment fits, you can't just pull up Google and type a few words in, you might actually have to do something.

And yes, the sage could know anything, but that doesn't mean they know about everything. I'm not saying that the sage shouldn't get hints, I'm just saying that it doesn't make much sense that without having to go anywhere and research anything or even refresh their memory on it from a person or a book. I know alot of people complain about the sage and their skills but I don't really see many people using all of the sages abilities to their full effect. It does take more RP and time than warrior or rogue but thats part of being sagely, AND the sage can mimic to a degree some of the same things that define the rogue and warrior without even using the mimic skill.

Post by **GM_Chris** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 3:23 pm

Actually the sage is one of the best paths, and might even be my second character I play.

First character will be dwarf, second will be a sage or have 0 skills what so ever just to prove a point.

Malphus · Post by **Malphus** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 3:28 pm

Atrum,
I see your Google analogy. I just like to think of the Fantasy Sage as being "Google" on two legs. In most settings the sage is effectively useless except for their knowledge. FH has done a large amount to make the untrue in this setting. As you said, they have skills from every other path and get the sagey stuff. I just like the image of having the Sage pull info out of their arse rather than having to journey 5 days to find a book. Maybe we could say, they get BETTER hints if they have a "book", but to take it away I think would be a little severe. Functionally, any hint a sage gets still wouldn't be as good as Google.

Post by **GM-Mike** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 3:29 pm

you could play a dwarven sage with no skills and not have to worry about a second character