I was entierly joking about having pre-written hint envelopes to prove a point that the GM staff would most likely have to adapt clues to what we had already learned, and how we had already role-played the plot so we would need to find them and discuss things. Now it seems that this might be a legit possibility, and I'm shocked.Wyrmwrath wrote:However id reccomend having a box of clues/hints taht gets divided among the sages that show up. you may have folders for 6 sages in the PC box but only have two show for an event. Then the other clues/hints are lost and if your planning on the hints making it possible for the PCs to "connect the dots" of a plot, they may be missing info.
Sage Hint - > NPC Camp
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Well we use to d in CARPS the Lord book and it sucked because we didn't maintain it. I like the box, or better yet just dividing hints amoung sages. All hints are relative to the event, but you would not nessissarily know esxactly what plots they were for. We would probably have to make them a tad more descriptive though.
Chris
I be one of the gamemasters so e-mail me questions if you have them
I be one of the gamemasters so e-mail me questions if you have them
I like the current hint set. It's better for sages, and plots. You can get a hint when you need one.
If we have to call the NPC sage city hall, I'm fine with that. what ever it takes. I do like the way the FH give written copies of the hints out. keeps them easy to track. We intend to do the same at Wh, but haven't got that far.
If we have to call the NPC sage city hall, I'm fine with that. what ever it takes. I do like the way the FH give written copies of the hints out. keeps them easy to track. We intend to do the same at Wh, but haven't got that far.
Travis Cole
I'm going to skip commenting on everything else because I can't really find a nice way of wording a reply. I'll leave that to Mike 
I do have some comments on the actual Sage Recall Mechanic.
The sages Recall skill was originally intended to only work for plots on the agenda that have pre-written hints. If a plot didnt have a prewritten hint, the sages got nothing. Over the past few years we have been lenient and given hints above and beyond what was written. It was out of this leniency that the issue of going to NPC camp was born.
I think the best (Not easiest) solution is to seperate out the two. We have sage hints printed out on notecards already. We could just make more copies, add in some false hints, and hand an envelope to every sage with Recall at check in. These are things the sage "Knows" or knowledge they can easily access. We will leave it to the sage to role-play their recollection of the information and not attach a time requirement to it.
If the sage(s) want a different hint then they need to spend 1 hour (Maybe 2) to "find" an answer. This would involve an IC trip to NPC camp. It would be up to the sage to come up with the Role-playing reason for leaving and go to NPC camp. This would lead to the whole PC plot creation that Chris was talking about. The sage's search for an answer may not provide any additional clues (GM Discression).
This solution gives sages the "Standard" payoff for their skill. If they want more information then they need to ante up a little risk and go out into the cold dark night to get some answers.
I do have some comments on the actual Sage Recall Mechanic.The sages Recall skill was originally intended to only work for plots on the agenda that have pre-written hints. If a plot didnt have a prewritten hint, the sages got nothing. Over the past few years we have been lenient and given hints above and beyond what was written. It was out of this leniency that the issue of going to NPC camp was born.
I think the best (Not easiest) solution is to seperate out the two. We have sage hints printed out on notecards already. We could just make more copies, add in some false hints, and hand an envelope to every sage with Recall at check in. These are things the sage "Knows" or knowledge they can easily access. We will leave it to the sage to role-play their recollection of the information and not attach a time requirement to it.
If the sage(s) want a different hint then they need to spend 1 hour (Maybe 2) to "find" an answer. This would involve an IC trip to NPC camp. It would be up to the sage to come up with the Role-playing reason for leaving and go to NPC camp. This would lead to the whole PC plot creation that Chris was talking about. The sage's search for an answer may not provide any additional clues (GM Discression).
This solution gives sages the "Standard" payoff for their skill. If they want more information then they need to ante up a little risk and go out into the cold dark night to get some answers.
Wayne O
The Game Master Lite
Frag the weak, Hurdle the dead!
The Game Master Lite
Frag the weak, Hurdle the dead!
I just got off the phone with Mike.
Here are my feelings. I love seeing and talking to all of you, but if I can make it so none of you ever come to NPC camp then I have done a good job. I don't want you there. I don't want you asking to go to a certain place or for a hint. Unfortunatly, well we have to have that so lets look at some things.
Here are some random thoughts to at least stop the lore people from showing up.
1) If you have the lore skill you will get something about the event at checkin. This info may be the same or similiar to what another sage gets or may be completely different. I am thinking something about half a page big. This info will help you figure something out abotu what is going on about the event. I am thinking everyone gets level 1 type of hints with maybe more background and cool story about things than they ever got with a hint. For example, The crest of Morgan looks like this, and he was born at this time. it is said he did this and that. Alot more interesting than "It is not a box"
2) If you have wilderness survival then you will get (see above) but have knowledge limited to tracking and things that you can see by traveling.
3) The current lore skill will give you hints as always assuming we have hints and those hints will be available while you are on the plot.
4) If you have some super dicipline that gives you more then you will get more stuff at checkin.
Now, what if a bunch of warriors go on a plot and bring back an item and no sage was there to get hints about this item? My thought is you cannot just get the item and KNOW things about it. You may know something general about it, BUT you will not know specific things about it unless you can go to where it was retrieved in order to see it in context. Perhaps there is writting on the walls or you need to feel the magic of where it was at. In any case it would make sence that this would all be "in game"
Here are my feelings. I love seeing and talking to all of you, but if I can make it so none of you ever come to NPC camp then I have done a good job. I don't want you there. I don't want you asking to go to a certain place or for a hint. Unfortunatly, well we have to have that so lets look at some things.
Here are some random thoughts to at least stop the lore people from showing up.
1) If you have the lore skill you will get something about the event at checkin. This info may be the same or similiar to what another sage gets or may be completely different. I am thinking something about half a page big. This info will help you figure something out abotu what is going on about the event. I am thinking everyone gets level 1 type of hints with maybe more background and cool story about things than they ever got with a hint. For example, The crest of Morgan looks like this, and he was born at this time. it is said he did this and that. Alot more interesting than "It is not a box"
2) If you have wilderness survival then you will get (see above) but have knowledge limited to tracking and things that you can see by traveling.
3) The current lore skill will give you hints as always assuming we have hints and those hints will be available while you are on the plot.
4) If you have some super dicipline that gives you more then you will get more stuff at checkin.
Now, what if a bunch of warriors go on a plot and bring back an item and no sage was there to get hints about this item? My thought is you cannot just get the item and KNOW things about it. You may know something general about it, BUT you will not know specific things about it unless you can go to where it was retrieved in order to see it in context. Perhaps there is writting on the walls or you need to feel the magic of where it was at. In any case it would make sence that this would all be "in game"
Chris
I be one of the gamemasters so e-mail me questions if you have them
I be one of the gamemasters so e-mail me questions if you have them
unless I'm reading this wrong, you are saying that a sage cannot get info/hints about a magic item unless the sage was present at the time the item was acquired.
That seems extremely sucky. The whole point of the sage (either Loremaster or Bard type) is that the adventurers can bring them loot and have the sage identify it. Then the sage can safely sit and study while the adventurers risk their neck. Also this allows the sage the ability to lie to the "unwitting" adventurers about the true nature of their magic item (were one so inclined...) If you take all that away from the Sage, I think a large dimension is lost. Reading scrawls and crap on the walls...any schmoe can do that. A Sage just "knows"
My 2 bits,
Steve
That seems extremely sucky. The whole point of the sage (either Loremaster or Bard type) is that the adventurers can bring them loot and have the sage identify it. Then the sage can safely sit and study while the adventurers risk their neck. Also this allows the sage the ability to lie to the "unwitting" adventurers about the true nature of their magic item (were one so inclined...) If you take all that away from the Sage, I think a large dimension is lost. Reading scrawls and crap on the walls...any schmoe can do that. A Sage just "knows"
My 2 bits,
Steve
I think Chris was saying that to get hints about the item, the sage would have to travel to the location it was recovered from. If they weren't on the plot when it was recovered then they'd just have to make a second trip.
Now, while I like the idea, the only issue I see is that many plots either run long or get a late start (not ever due to the PCs of course) already, and having to make two trips would just make this worse. Especially, when say you can't make the second trip till later but the GM running the plot is now running something else, and/or no GM is available.
Now, while I like the idea, the only issue I see is that many plots either run long or get a late start (not ever due to the PCs of course) already, and having to make two trips would just make this worse. Especially, when say you can't make the second trip till later but the GM running the plot is now running something else, and/or no GM is available.
My posts in no way reflect that of anyone else nor are they in any way official.
Well let me make a disctiction.
Magic items that are not for plot can be "researched" between events.
Items that are puzzles may have hints in addition to any hints given at game on. Oh and please understand that I would like to give out some good hints at game on not like a couple lines, but something with some meat. Those specific additional hints would require you to be at the place the item was aquiered.
To use SG1 as an example, there were several episodes where Daniel either needed to go adventure for more resources OR go to where the item was found to understand the context of the item.
Now I understand that this may appear to only work for the book worm sage, but I would agrue that it works for any type of sage. Maybe you cannot get a good vision without being where the item was found because that is where the impression is at.
The cool thing is puzzles can usually be figured out without any hint at all. The hint is to assist a person that likes to play a sage just like def matrix is to assist a warrior fight. A warrior can fight without the skill just like a sage can figure things out without a skill.
Anyways im getting pumped about this. I am thinking of play testing it next event so speak up now if your a sage and you hate it.
Magic items that are not for plot can be "researched" between events.
Items that are puzzles may have hints in addition to any hints given at game on. Oh and please understand that I would like to give out some good hints at game on not like a couple lines, but something with some meat. Those specific additional hints would require you to be at the place the item was aquiered.
To use SG1 as an example, there were several episodes where Daniel either needed to go adventure for more resources OR go to where the item was found to understand the context of the item.
Now I understand that this may appear to only work for the book worm sage, but I would agrue that it works for any type of sage. Maybe you cannot get a good vision without being where the item was found because that is where the impression is at.
The cool thing is puzzles can usually be figured out without any hint at all. The hint is to assist a person that likes to play a sage just like def matrix is to assist a warrior fight. A warrior can fight without the skill just like a sage can figure things out without a skill.
Anyways im getting pumped about this. I am thinking of play testing it next event so speak up now if your a sage and you hate it.
Chris
I be one of the gamemasters so e-mail me questions if you have them
I be one of the gamemasters so e-mail me questions if you have them
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Eilonwy
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- Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:00 pm
- Location: Drinking the bloody visions away.
Trust me, every time I've come to NPC camp for hints, I cringe, knowing what a pain in the arse it is for you guys. I'm willing to go with the current clarified rules as Travis also said. The new ideas are interesting (mainly the pre-game random hints) as long as the GMs really like them enough to discuss. So to answer Chris, nope, don't hate it; actually intrigued. Reid's got a point on that last though.
Oh, and Brian, since I know you like verbal sparring
I can't resist pointing out that "action" doesn't necessarily mean attack or combat according to definition. Semantics. As for what LARPing should be, how about variety. That way everyone's as happy as possible, combat lovers and roleplayers alike, along with everyone in between. Despite my current character, those who know me from CARPS know I like combat. But variety is the spice of life...
Oh, and Brian, since I know you like verbal sparring
I can't resist pointing out that "action" doesn't necessarily mean attack or combat according to definition. Semantics. As for what LARPing should be, how about variety. That way everyone's as happy as possible, combat lovers and roleplayers alike, along with everyone in between. Despite my current character, those who know me from CARPS know I like combat. But variety is the spice of life... E. E. Nightshade of Clan Campbell
I think for "Extended" hints we should make sages go out and "Investigate" the issue/item/story to find the answer (I.E. come to NPC camp after x amount of time for the answer). If we require people to go back and see an item "In context" then we run into the issue that Brian stated. The NPCs may not be available to re-run the plot, the GM who ran the plot might be out, it might not fit into the agenda to re-run the plot, etc. If we leave it up to the PCs to rp it out amongst themselves then its less of a burden on us.
Before it is even said let me address "Yeah, but you are still making sages go out into the dark and scary night to use their skills". Not entirely true. The sage gets a "Standard" benefit from the skill (The hints at the beginning of the game). Getting an extended hint is going beyond the skills basic intention to get an Added benefit.
Before it is even said let me address "Yeah, but you are still making sages go out into the dark and scary night to use their skills". Not entirely true. The sage gets a "Standard" benefit from the skill (The hints at the beginning of the game). Getting an extended hint is going beyond the skills basic intention to get an Added benefit.
Wayne O
The Game Master Lite
Frag the weak, Hurdle the dead!
The Game Master Lite
Frag the weak, Hurdle the dead!