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[GM_Chris]

How do you people feel about all races and that inclludes secret races starting with 1 LP across the board?

For those who want to be anonomous I am creating a poll.

[Todd]

Right now we are looking at the 'Boons' and 'Starting LP's and we several discrepancies. Some would like to keep the LP stagered and adjust the boons.

I would like to standardize the Starting LP's (to keep soak down) and then look at adjusting the Races with weaker boons to bring them up to par.

We're just looking to see how people feel about it.

?

[Kalphoenix]

Ok, one of my long ones here and I flip-flop a bit

There would have to be some hellacious racial boon balancing to make this viable, although I think there are a lot of races that suffer from poor combos that make other races look a heck of a lot more attractive from a min/maxer's point of view. Valkyn'Vi and Aviana come to mind at the forefront. Great races with lots of roleplaying potential, but very limited boons that make them less attractive to new players or min/maxers. The problem now is that I personally think many of the 2LP races's boons are better than the 1LP races's boons (Regenerate, Extended Bleeding). The human boon is one of the best, if you are going to play politics, otherwise it's kind of boring and a waste. The elf boon can be great under the right circumstances, but it's limited by the fact that you have to have a spell packet to utilize it. One of the exceptions to this is the Orc racial and dwarven racial, where they have to spend a lifepoint to utilize it (ouch) and now they may also loose an extra lifepoint in the process.

To clarify your reasoning for wishing do do this: I am to understand, that you are making a point by saying that lifepoints are not a measure of physical healthiness? Or is there another reason that you believe makes lifepoints by race redundant?

If this is not the case, and lifepoints DO represent physical hardiness, I also have an alternate suggestion: Make starting lifepoints by lifestyle only, which simplifies things without changing a whole lot. Simply up lifepoints for each lifestyle by one. There are only a few cases of the top of my head of characters that play a certain character that really breaks the mold as far as lifestyle is concerned (Which is reasonable, after all). I think it's rare for us to see a privillaged Ga'Vin or Tsunotaur as well as it's rare (although less so than the latter two) to see a savage elf or human. Especially in the case of the human, where the allegiance boon doesn't lend much to a savage character (It reduces/negates my allegiance penalty for being savage...um...yay?)

Going that same direction, you could come up with a racial boon for each race based on their lifestyle, but I think that would be over complicating things, or have a couple to pick from at character creation.

The racial descriptions lend themselves somewhat to the idea of what the races "should" be as opposed to those who choose to break the mold (as some roleplayers enjoy and should be allowed to do). I'm not saying they don't exist, I can think of several unusual race/lifestyle combos that DO exist, I'm just saying they are more rare. I think it would go a long way to simplify the system, if that is one of the current concerns. It makes more sense that a savage orc is going to be a LOT more beefy than one who came from a privillaged lifestyle and has less to do with their race than their upbringing.

But do consider, when you play with lifepoints, you are really playing with the deadliness factor, even if it is only a difference of one point. I guess I would have to see what was being considered in exchange for removing the lifepoints before I could say if I could actually support this change. I really think all the boons need a boost, especially if this is considered for live.

[Todd]

Actually When you look at the 'balance' of the boons, the Orc gets screwed the worst, but thats not the issue.

Right now the races are sepperated by 1LP, Lifestyle still dictates the bulk of your 'Health'. With having two different totals we are saying that no matter what, if a Human, and a Ga'Vin have the exact same build, the Ga'Vin will be 1LP tougher.

Do we want to keep it that way?

I would like to see it based on lifestyle, and skill selection. In the end an Elf, and a Dwarf, who have followed the exact same path will be equal.

Removing the Starting LP, and just adding them to 'Lifestyles' might be the easiest way to accomplish this, but right now we are just trying to decide if its something that people care about. We dont want to change rules and have everyone say 'Hey!! You nerfed me for no reason.'

[GM_Chris]

And I guess I will mention I of course am against the idea. I think we are removing racial diversity which I would like to keep.

In the elf vs dwarf situation if the elf is at a distance and has 5 seconds he can decrease the dwarf by 3 LP's making the dwarf have 2 LP's less than the elf and thus both builds being identical the dwarf would be 2lp's short. Maybe the dwarf needs 2 more LPS

Then again that is my opinion. The reality is we all know a dwarf can beat an elf any day of the weak!

[Todd]

And as the 'Anti'-Chris(tm) I am for it. I think the real diversity comes from 3 things.

Role-playing
Cultural steriotypes
Boons

If we are relying on 1LP to make the difference we've failed those 3 points.

[GM-Mike]

I would rather it be mysterious which side I stand on (I will only say that I'm a Nicholson). My main point for posting is that I think we need a Final Haven Debate Team. The last few posts have been highly stimulating, especially the part about strong dwarves being able to handle elves any day of the weak (instead of week), which I'm sure Chris knows means lack of strength and so he was making a pun. This in no way reflects his spelling ability.

[Ian_McAllister]

I would say I would be on board for 1Lp across the board with a revamping of the racial boons.. I agree with Todd on the racial diversity really coming from role-playing and the like.. although if you wanted to bring mechanical differences in to give oyu a headache.. give each race 2-3 options for boons.. that way when you see an elf, or a dwarf coming you may not know instinctively what his racial boon is.
Examples..

Elf - 1. 5 count for a 3 magic
2. Draw one less chip from a ressurection (min. 1 chip) (Due to the hardiness of the Elven essence ..yada, yada..)
3. Start with one additional Language (read/write)

While thinking about this, I was wondering about this idea... Take away all specific racial boons.. Make a Boon ability pool, and allow characters to pick one from the pool. Obviously you will have to make the boons perhaps more generic, and I can see the abuse factor.. just more suggestions.

[dier_cire]

If we really wanted to make race have nothing to do with boons. Make it just roleplaying.

Boons would be a pool and you get 2 points to pick boons, one of which could be a 1 life point boon. Better boons cost 2 points, weaker cost 1.

Overall, I am not really in favor of the idea as I think the boons of some of the less used races could be modified for an easier solution. Either way you need to balance the boons, but making all races one life point makes one more complexity you'll have to factor. Ultimately, the reasons I don't like most races is the makeup, it has little to do with skills (though the one minute is nice). I like that some races are naturally tougher than others, and if you want a better boon, you sacrifice the life point (and +3 boom is a nice one).

If you changed the +knockout to +critical strike, it'd be pretty tempting. For the aviana, I liked the +flee (probably one of the best overall imo).

[Todd]

I think the issues may be getting confused. The Boons definately need, and will be looked into, to be changed to balance them.

So now, ignoring the Boons.....


Should a
Dwarf, Ga'Vin, Tsuno, Orc
ALWAYS be tougher then an equally trained
Human, Elf, Guthrie, Valken'Vi, etc. ?

Thats what this question boils down to.

[General Maximus]

Yes,

Some races should be inhertely tougher than other races. But the weaker races have better boons because they had to devolpe their abilties more than the tougher races. In the end, they all balance out.

[Todd]

And thats exactly what we are trying to figure out. Thanks Nelkie.

How many people agree with Nelkie?
and
How many people feel the LP should be balanced?

In fact it might be clearer if rephrased in a new poll.

[GM_Chris]

FYI if the LP's change to 1 LP across the board then yes all the boons will have to be rebalanced according to the new 1 LP.

Forexample, if the ELf's boon is more powerful than other races that lost a LP then the elf's boon would have to change to be inline with the other races.

[Todd]

Dam*it Chris! Stop with the Boons! I almost had everyone on track.


LP discussion only people. Should some races be inherantly tougher then others? i.e. +1 LP

[Slisk]

I'm with the Nelkster. Maybe because my current character has that 2 starting life.