BackStab

[Nelkie]

Now for some clarifications
Backstab is an attack made FROM the back not to the back. Please do not try and rap around a person's shoulders to strike them on the back so you can call a back stab. I will not even start listening to any complaints about the comabt effectivness of rogues since they are not fighters they are stealth monsters.

OK, why the issue with backstab? This, in my opiniion, leads to judgement calls, and and will be chessed. Oh, I knew you where there and I turned as you hit me, so it doesn't count.
If you are having problems of people wrapping around and calling back stab, than just hit them. They lose the chaged skill. Backstab is diffucult as hell to use with it being a charged skill in which you lose if you get hit.

I use backstab by running past the victim hitting their back and calling backstab. Or i'm in a group attacking the NPC and as soona s they turn their back I strike. Does the backstab still count now? You effectively can not wrap around someone and hit them with a back stab in thw new rule set of being hit you lose your charge.

I agree rouges are not fighters and I can not last in a combat, but I run in and out of combat and hit the enimies when I see an opening. AKA how a rouge should do it. I can not stand toe to toe with an enmy and win. I have tried and almost if not died every time. A warrior a rouge is not.
So why the change in backstab rules?

[GM-Mike]

It is my understanding that in addition to the rogue philosophical issues that Chris mentioned, it was primarily discussed as a safety issue. The maneuver requires moving into the target, creating potential harm for both parties, especially when shields are being flung around or swords are at unfortunate angles and then bad things happen. I think that's what we talked about anyway.

[dier_cire]

So wrapping is illegal now? *bites tongue*

[Dallid]

Wrapping to use backstab doesn't work.

You don't have to take a person by surprise to use backstab, merely hit them from behind.

Whether or not the backstab is valid ought to be obvious, though a further clarification (from the back TO the back) may help.

Wrapping, in general, is still apparently legal, though IMHO it's one of the smelliest forms of cheese.

[GM_Chris]

Ok I KNOW for you rule lawyers this will be hard to grasp BUT the backstab thing is a clarification not a rule.

Basically don't wrap to hit someone in the back so you can call back stab.

Backstab is a surprise attack to the rear. Now there is no "I saw you there" crap because if they saw you they turn and hit you. At the same time there is no rogue acting like a fighter and making diving leaps past a person so the very tip of their weapon touches their back.

And before any thieves start comparing their effectivness to say warriors or empaths let me remind you that the warriors complain about rogues, and that empaths complain about the rogues and warriors. Infact since no path seems to feel all that effective it is my oppinion everything is perfect.

Chris

[dier_cire]

Show me the person that can wrap consistantly under the current rules (without the clarification) and I'll buy them dinner. It isn't possible.

[Peace420]

Wrapping, in general, is still apparently legal, though IMHO it's one of the smelliest forms of cheese

I have to disagree here Doug, the 6 ft person with the 5 1\2 ft shield is the linberger peddler. wrapping is more prone to get you injured but that isn't the wrappers fault, are they supposed to give up or ankle bite because someone is hiding behind a big 'ol shield?

Backstab is a surprise attack to the rear. Now there is no "I saw you there" crap because if they saw you they turn and hit you. At the same time there is no rogue acting like a fighter and making diving leaps past a person so the very tip of their weapon touches their back.

Uhm isn't that how a Rogue fights as opposed to standing there trading blows? Not that that's how I backstab but, a Rogue takes chances to get a really damaging shot in instead of beating something to a pulp. Just my opinion.