A new take on Disciplines (including Druid)

[Todd]

Ok, first I still maintain that the druid skill 'Emulate' works fine as is. Aside from that, Pacify. All the afor mentioned reasons. Comunication, New call, Grey areas(NPC discression), The fact that we eliminated the same call already for undead. There are more, but I think thats enough.
One thing I am curious about. While I am a fan of Emulate, I'm begining to get concerned with the 'what do I see?' factor. Anyone else?
Beastling. Not a fan. Its Lycanthropy with no down side.

Now for the new idea part. (and technically this is just a rehashing of an old idea really) Nelkie (I believe) once asked if you could take the same discipline over again, and we said.. No, but there may be follow up disciplines that could complinent other disciplines. We've also worked out similar ideas with the Monster/Control stats. What if we set up Second Generation Disciplines? Disciplines with another Discipline as its 'pre-req'.

As a loose example, leave Druid alone, and make Beastling 'Druid dependant'. Roughly it would be the equivelent of lvls 5 thru 8 for a druid.
The Power level then wouldnt be so drastic, as it would require more put into it (2 disciplines). I have more ideas, but I cut out of work just to hit these, so..

... I'm audi, zoooooooooooooooommmm.......

[GM-Mike]

I really have no valid rationale for why this makes me cringe but for some reason it does. It might be because this discussion started with emulate totem and how to fix it if fixing is even necessary. This has blossomed into a possible new discipline and now new disciplines and it has the feel of getting away from us. Without thiking too much about what you said, my gut reaction is we are getting too complex again, but I will dwell on it some more because I like to tickle you how you like to be tickled...

[dier_cire]

The problem lies in that say there was a requirement of druid for beastling, beastling still wouldn't change from Wayne had stated (after is was balanced and such). Reason for this is quite simply 2 full disciplines and a level 1 path (pre-req or otherwise) cannot be more powerful than a full path full discipline to keep the game balanced.

So while it is kind of a neat idea, it wouldn't have any effect on skills for a discipline.

[WayneO42]

Pacify. All the afor mentioned reasons. Comunication, New call, Grey areas(NPC discression), The fact that we eliminated the same call already for undead.

1) Communication: I dont see an issue with that. "Pacify" is not a difficult thing to call. Its no "Vorpal Poison Root". Aside from the call, the only communication would be if the druid choose to communicate with the animal. Then it drops from a "combat" to a "scene" so communication really isn't an issue
2) New Call: Yes and no. It is a new call but it is limited to NPC and special PC circumstances. All PCs need to know about the call is that it exists and if it effects them, they would know.
3) Grey areas: How so? If you are an animal NPC, it effects you as described. If not, ignore it.
4)The fact that we eliminated the same call already for undead: This is news to me. Undead Slayer didnt have a pacify, they had invisibility to undead. That was a huge problem not even remotely related to pacify. Undead slayers still have a NPC only call, "Banish"

[Dallid]

I agree with Todd that Beastling is Lycantropy without a down-side. Seems to be geared toward turning a character into a tooth-and-claw combat machine with monster-like abilities. I don't think we need a discipline focused on this.

Pacify Animal seems like it would work as a Druid 4th level ability - though I'd prefer to keep Emulate Totem.

[Nelkie]

What about this idea. I didn't get many responses and is very close to what Tod's wants. It is difined and if it is noton the list you can't do it. Simple straight foward etc..


30 secounds to change froms
No speach
No skills
No equipment
While in animal form all equipment is absored into body
Change back to human form when unconious
Animal will be same size as the person
loose any armor benifits
Have base life, costume, buffs (life,armor, resits, +5 damage swing) while in animal form
Can not pick up items while in animal form

Can use all druid abilites while in animal form (including root because root is a mental/msagical control over plants) note root is a 10 secound count to break free period, it does not matter if the person is gertting hit or not, they still are free after 10 secs.
Get animal special ability
Get claws (18") or the flee skill as per scout
Get to diguse onself as an animal
Can communicate with like animal while in animal form
Can still pick items up

[WayneO42]

I agree with Todd that Beastling is Lycantropy without a down-side.

This argument, if found valid for the Beastling, could be applied to Emulate totem as well.

Story wise, beastlings are nothing like lyconthrops. They do not fully change forms, they simply take on SOME of the characteristics of the animal. Mechanically, beastlings are not even close to what a lyconthrop is. Lyconthropy is a Path not a discipline. The beastling only has a fraction of the power of a lyconthrop.

Seems to be geared toward turning a character into a tooth-and-claw combat machine with monster-like abilities. I don't think we need a discipline focused on this.

Thats just because the only examples I could think of at the moment were combat examples. I will not put it on the forum but the abilities you suggested for a totem would fit perfect in beastling. In fact, you gave me the idea.

Pacify Animal seems like it would work as a Druid 4th level ability - though I'd prefer to keep Emulate Totem.

Beastling was designed around emulate totem which, in my opinion, we were trying to cram WAY too much into a single skill.

[Todd]

Ok, I'm renewing my 'Not a Dick' warning here.

Without beating the dead horse that Reid pointed out, I cant think of a single way to solve this dilema. Everyone seems to have a different idea on where to go with it. Final count I think,
Leave it alone - 3 (plus nelkies 1, cause its close)
Replace it - 3
New discipline - 3
It just seems to keep coming back to, "I dont like it." I dont mean just for me, that seems to be the response all around. 'Replace it, I dont like it.' 'I dont like it, make it its own skill.' 'I dont like it as its own skill, leave it alone'.
At this point I think almost all the cards are on the table, we just need a discission. Who's gonna make it?
Beyond that, and again not trying to be a dick, but I give up. I quit. Guess I'm the dead horse.

[Dallid]

Okay, if the Beastling example was just an example of a combat-intensive choice, and it's left open for other possibilies, then perhaps it can be a well-rounded discipline. Although it does seem rather druidic. Still, it's a dicipline that, once fleshed out, could work well and make sense.

I think we're all just giving our ideas and opinions here, and presenting alternate possibilites. All these threads basically are are food for thought. In the end, it's up to NPC camp to decide what the end results will be. Take ideas offered, combine ideas, ignore ideas - whatever seems likely to result in the most fun for everyone.

You can't please everybody. In fact, isn't the best compromise the one where everyone is equally unhappy?

[GM_Chris]

Druid stays in game

I want to get rid of emulate totem from the game

I want to come up with a new 4th level ability that is balanced with other 4th level abilities and I do not feel pacify is a 4th level ability.

I will not condone anything that changes the existing system in anyway since we are trying to come up with a stable book and adding any new mechanics goes against that goal.

As for Beastling ideas and the ideas for emulate totem that have been discussed such as Brian's idea's I want taken out of the the druid discussion and instead the GM's can discuss as a possibly hidden discipline\path choice.

Anyways this post is to help focus the discussion.

Chris

[Nelkie]

Works for me. So lets start a new post with non animal transforming abilities. There was a couple ideas out there.