See I thought the beast was some form of undead...
As for the gargoyle with 10ft wings, see I'd think that maybe this was a dragon or something. Even with proper costuming, I have no idea what your vision of a gargoyle is. Now as for the what do I see, the simple answer is "a big humanoid creature made of rock with wings". Tht I won't confuse with a dragon. Like when I fought Chris as the basalisk, I asked and he said a big lizard. After fighting it for awhile, I figured it out. Now, I generally ask other PCs what we are fighting when I enter a scene that's under way, thereby avoiding npc asking.
What do I see?
Moderator: Admin
"Basically player races cannot have flavor texts like this because then they get used in game and players want to "use" these flavor texts. Forexample..I am 800 pounds I should be immune to press."
Let me get this straight. Player races may not have descriptions that a player might claim they can "Use." Thats...thats...Dumb. You want to remove the life and breath from player races because someone wants to cheese? for the love of mike, then why aren't we playing humans?
Elfs: no more elves because players might want more skill points since their so old.
Avyana: They should take less dmagae from fallling since they can have wings.
Dwarves: They should never get lost underground, they were born there you know.
Gav'in should be resistant to fire since they were burned.
Gutherie should get weapon focus bow or knife since it mesntions it in the description.
Orcs: well they are large, so they should be immune to press.
Tsunataurs': same
where does it end? You can't prevent a player from being a dork by making the flavor bland. it's not fair to anyone.
Let me get this straight. Player races may not have descriptions that a player might claim they can "Use." Thats...thats...Dumb. You want to remove the life and breath from player races because someone wants to cheese? for the love of mike, then why aren't we playing humans?
Elfs: no more elves because players might want more skill points since their so old.
Avyana: They should take less dmagae from fallling since they can have wings.
Dwarves: They should never get lost underground, they were born there you know.
Gav'in should be resistant to fire since they were burned.
Gutherie should get weapon focus bow or knife since it mesntions it in the description.
Orcs: well they are large, so they should be immune to press.
Tsunataurs': same
where does it end? You can't prevent a player from being a dork by making the flavor bland. it's not fair to anyone.
Travis Cole
Just as a side note, the better eye sight and 800 lb thing is NOT in the gargoyle race description. In the description it says "Their bodies are huge and rock like...." If we take out the word huge, problem solved.
Bottom line: You cannot add flavor text to your race or character background and expect to get special skills. There is no free lunch. In certain circumstances, a GM may allow the flavor text to come into play to solve a plot or puzzle but never EXPECT it to.
BTW: Travis, I think Chris is trying to say no official flavor text in the book that may directly describe a skill or ability that the race gets for free unless it is their boon and the skill is described out. No one is saying bland characters.
Bottom line: You cannot add flavor text to your race or character background and expect to get special skills. There is no free lunch. In certain circumstances, a GM may allow the flavor text to come into play to solve a plot or puzzle but never EXPECT it to.
BTW: Travis, I think Chris is trying to say no official flavor text in the book that may directly describe a skill or ability that the race gets for free unless it is their boon and the skill is described out. No one is saying bland characters.
Wayne O
The Game Master Lite
Frag the weak, Hurdle the dead!
The Game Master Lite
Frag the weak, Hurdle the dead!
Its all about representation.
I know some games will not allow people to play certain races if OOG they do not conform to the height requirement.
Not saying we need to be as extreame, but we do try and limit peple playing thigns. For example I think I have hung up playing giants.
I know some games will not allow people to play certain races if OOG they do not conform to the height requirement.
Not saying we need to be as extreame, but we do try and limit peple playing thigns. For example I think I have hung up playing giants.
Chris
I be one of the gamemasters so e-mail me questions if you have them
I be one of the gamemasters so e-mail me questions if you have them
Instead of removing flavor text, just remind people that unless it appears as a boon it is exactly that. my point, is that for every race in the book, I could imply skills that are not present in the boon. How watered down does it have to be to get a limit? i mean seriously?
Maybe all ages for all races now must be between 16 and 75 years old. (no one learns more than the other. if imply more knowlage and hense more skill.) every race must have the same coloration:(dark skin implies bonuses at night.) every race must be between 5'0 and 6'9. anything else implies that small characters might be able to passwall and large character are immune to press.
I'm taking this to the logical extreme to make a point. Where does it stop?
I'm amused by the idea that Roleplaying aspects with no mechanical benifits must be removed. I thought this was all about the RP?
Maybe all ages for all races now must be between 16 and 75 years old. (no one learns more than the other. if imply more knowlage and hense more skill.) every race must have the same coloration:(dark skin implies bonuses at night.) every race must be between 5'0 and 6'9. anything else implies that small characters might be able to passwall and large character are immune to press.
I'm taking this to the logical extreme to make a point. Where does it stop?
I'm amused by the idea that Roleplaying aspects with no mechanical benifits must be removed. I thought this was all about the RP?
Travis Cole
The key is that we can not add flavor text to descriptions that cannot be represented. That is why NO race will ever fly. NO race will ever be 10 feet tall. NO race will ever walk on water. NO race will have better eye sight than another. These are things that cannot be phys repped so we do not put them into the game world. They are not LARPable effects. Having a PC race larger than what can be done with a resonable amount of costuming is not good LARP practice. It is hard and annoying enough to do it with NPCs. Can you imagine being a PC and being asked "What do I see?" every 5 seconds?
Once again, no one said anything about removing the DAMN FLAVOR TEXT for all the races!!! We are just saying that the flavor text needs to be carefully worded so as not to imply skills, aptitudes, or appearances that are not LARPable. The gargoyle text did this well with the exception of one word that has been removed. The keen eye sight was never in the racial description becase it is NOT LARPable and it in no way detracts from the power, the character, or playability of the gargoyle.
Once again, no one said anything about removing the DAMN FLAVOR TEXT for all the races!!! We are just saying that the flavor text needs to be carefully worded so as not to imply skills, aptitudes, or appearances that are not LARPable. The gargoyle text did this well with the exception of one word that has been removed. The keen eye sight was never in the racial description becase it is NOT LARPable and it in no way detracts from the power, the character, or playability of the gargoyle.
Wayne O
The Game Master Lite
Frag the weak, Hurdle the dead!
The Game Master Lite
Frag the weak, Hurdle the dead!
"Travis, I think Chris is trying to say no official flavor text in the book that may directly describe a skill or ability that the race gets for free unless it is their boon and the skill is described out. No one is saying bland characters."
This does not imply or state anything about LARPable effects. That's the argument I was making.
This does not imply or state anything about LARPable effects. That's the argument I was making.
Travis Cole
Seriously...
This has to be one of the worst arguments ever. I've had my issues with some of the wordings but crap...
The whole point is someone decided their flavor text had an ingame effect which should have been ignored in the first place. Now to fix this, the word "huge" is removed, which shouldn't have been there as huge size can't reasonably be represented. Honestly, I'd go so far as to put "their skin is coarse like stone." rather than rock like. That way, their density isn't even an issue.
This has to be one of the worst arguments ever. I've had my issues with some of the wordings but crap...
The whole point is someone decided their flavor text had an ingame effect which should have been ignored in the first place. Now to fix this, the word "huge" is removed, which shouldn't have been there as huge size can't reasonably be represented. Honestly, I'd go so far as to put "their skin is coarse like stone." rather than rock like. That way, their density isn't even an issue.
My posts in no way reflect that of anyone else nor are they in any way official.
"The whole point is someone decided their flavor text had an ingame effect which should have been ignored in the first place. "
That's my point. how much they weight, how tall they are, I don't care about any of that. my base point is how watered down will it have to be? people that want to read into it will, and no amount of wording changes will ever fix it.
That's my point. how much they weight, how tall they are, I don't care about any of that. my base point is how watered down will it have to be? people that want to read into it will, and no amount of wording changes will ever fix it.
Travis Cole
Travis,
It doesn't have to be extreme as you are trying to make it is the point. You must know by now there are a lot of people here who like to play by "the spirit or the rules". Well, in the spirit of the rules, something that is massive (as in a large mass) is going to be hard to press (thus they will try to use roleplaying to influence rules). Then again, you have people like me, who live by the letter of the rules. (and I will stand that roleplaying and rules are seperate entities for the most part) Now walking that line is a real PITA for the GMs...
Compare it to the division of church and state in our country.
It doesn't have to be extreme as you are trying to make it is the point. You must know by now there are a lot of people here who like to play by "the spirit or the rules". Well, in the spirit of the rules, something that is massive (as in a large mass) is going to be hard to press (thus they will try to use roleplaying to influence rules). Then again, you have people like me, who live by the letter of the rules. (and I will stand that roleplaying and rules are seperate entities for the most part) Now walking that line is a real PITA for the GMs...
Compare it to the division of church and state in our country.
My posts in no way reflect that of anyone else nor are they in any way official.
Oddly, I always associate the word massive with "Mass" Could be the engineer in me.
No. It does not have to be that extreme. That is why I was taking it to the extreme logical conclusion. I'm trying to find out what the cutoff point IS. If Weight and Mass can be concidered dangrously inflamatory, then what of height, hair color and diet? Age?
No. It does not have to be that extreme. That is why I was taking it to the extreme logical conclusion. I'm trying to find out what the cutoff point IS. If Weight and Mass can be concidered dangrously inflamatory, then what of height, hair color and diet? Age?
Travis Cole