What do I see?

[Indira Al'Estrella]

I would really like this clarified here and at the next game-on meeting.

In the past if we have asked the question to NPCs, we've gotten a description of the varying monsters represented. This was allowed because it's too difficult to physically represent each monster we encounter. As far as the PCs go, some have chosen not to answer that as it is part of the character's mystery.

Lately, I have heard NPC's saying "you don't have to tell them what we are." That's really unfair. At the minimum we should be able to get a size description, even in the dark. As a PC with some experience I would know that a swarm of mosquitos is killed in a different way and attacks in a different way than say a pack of shadows. If it's something the NPC is fairly certain we've never encountered, they could give a description.

I really don't understand the logic behind not revealing what an PC should be seeing. Perhaps some people need to be straightened out, or perhaps I'm way off base. I've been roleplaying a long, long time though, and can't figure it out. Please advise.

Thanks!

[WayneO42]

Its not our policy for NPCs to decline answering a "What Do I see?" question. A brief description should be given unless:

1) The creature is humanoid and it would be impossible to make out any feature in the current situation/ light.

2) The NPC is costumed

This has been communicated to all of our full time NPCs but we did have lots of volunteers last event so a few may have slipped through the cracks

[Peace420]

I've encountered this too, but only as of lately. I would also suggest that light conditions shouldn't be considered unless there is supposed to be some sort of obfuscating or obscuring effect to the NPC. For instance I could easily see that a full totem druid, an avyana or the gargoyles in dark would be able to see in light that most people couldn't. So if they see you, they can probably make out details. And even if they are costumed you should still say "you see what you see" instead of ignoring the question.

[Trevor Owen]

do not confuse "you see what you see" with us not telling you. If we are playing costumed humanoids, what you see is what you get.

[GM_Chris]

I think it would be nice if we could get better of making it apparent when the question "what do I see" is appropriate.

It is annoying from the NPC perspective to be asked the question when you went to the trouble of dressing up.

Maybe the NPC's should be good enough to describe the scene before the question is asked. What I hate is the people who show up late and having to describe a scen 50 times.

As for seeing betting in the dark for certain races we no go there.

[Midnight]

1) The creature is humanoid and it would be impossible to make out any feature in the current situation/ light.

2) The NPC is costumed

We do appreciate the costuming, but what if you are a fully costumed gargoyle in the dark? I might not be able to see the mask or wings, but gargoyles really do have a different shape then the average humanoid. I think it some cases, "What do I see" might still be a fair question.

[GM_Chris]

In garg the cartoon show people mistakenly saw goliath in teh dark as a human. I think it is safe to say that a garg in full costuming would not have to say who they were.

[Peace420]

LOL yeah and they also thought Bronx was a dog. Cartoon people are stoopid, not seasoned adventurers who fight for their life on a regular basis who may have sight much better than a normal human. I would think if theres any confusion as to what you are it should be cleared up, I can understand being a little frustrated at people not being able to recognize what you may be but how frustrated do you think your paying players will be when they get jumped by something they would have been running from when they first saw it?

[GM_Chris]

So lets say I am in a full garg costume with 10 foot wings. Why..at night..should I have to tell you what you see if you are unable to tell due to shadow to see my huge wings?

There is also the problem of when the PC's ask what they see just to see if someone answers them

On the extreame lets take that golem costum wayne psoted awhile back. I could see at night someone asking what they saw when it was freaking obvious what it is.

Oh and as for sight no where I think in lore do we even mention that our races have better vision than humans.

I guess what I am saying is we as the GM's need a way to tell you as a PC when you can ask. Maybe we should wear glow sticks at night or head bands during the day, or maybe shy away from non humanoids. Maybe the NPC's should give up the info before the PC's ask.

The "what do I see" thang can be hugely distracting to a very well planned scene with good costuming. I want to limit it as much as possible.

[Peace420]

I know the gargoyle lore does say that, not sure on any others, and you limit it by good costuming but like I said, if there is still confusion then an answer should be given. And if that golem was phys repped at FH that way and someone still asked then yeah, I'd have no problem with the answer not coming. But until you guys can portray something like like then the question should still be answered, for example if you were in an all grey costume with a gagrgoyle mask and huge wings and somehow looked 8 feet tall and 600 -800 lbs, not only would I be thoroughly impressed but I'd slap the stuffing out of someone that actually asked what do I see.

[Doctor Erasmus]

I know that when I can't rep an NPC properly I always try to proclaim what I am (Undead Weasel!! Undead WEASEL!!!) However, it is quite frustrating when one PC spots you, you announce and combats begins. At the sound of combat, more PC's rush to the scene and decide to ask "What do I see?"

At this point I'm beating on someone and they want a desc. I understand wanting to know wtf is going on but when I have attempted to pause combat to give a desc... I've taken a 30 boom as soon as I finished. Also frustrating and bloody rude.

Another similar moment occured during the "Shambling Mound" attack when I paused to explain how knockout worked to a PC. I hate to call a gamestop for a rules question, but the question needs to be answered. The PC must understand what is happeneing to them and unfortunately we don't all have the rulebook memorized (hell, I still recall skills and rules from 2 years ago... *sigh*). Once again however, having people walk upon the scene, see that something is being explained and then pop me with a charged skill is moderately irritating.

All in all, improved costuming is always a good thing... but I can't costume an undead rat one moment and a giant armadillo the next... just can't.

[Kalphoenix]

Then pick a quick description As per above: "A dire rat," "Humanoid," "A skeleton," "A pile of goop." It doesn't have to be a detailed description, just something you can say quickly. NPCs shouldn't shy away from a description, but they shouldn't feel like they should have to STOP to give one either.

I do have to admit, that cartoon analagy wasn't the best. Cartoon people ARE stupid. I mean, I love my magical girl anime...but they look the same when they are their super-hero alter-egos, and yet, no one seems to notice...

On the other hand, a ten foot humanoid at night may not be noticed, but if someone sees you and you aren't out-of-game, then I would think they WOULD be. It's kinda unfair to say "You don't see anything" and then 10-secs later they are squashed by a big foot or something. And something that big, if it's moving, is going to make a hell of a noise. We have to find a happy medium.

[GM_Chris]

a 10 foot huminoid 20 feet away in the dark in the woods is not big enough to nessissarily cause a person to not think it is a large human.


On the other hand a good point was brought up. We dropped gnomes because they were too small. Now we have an issue with Gargs being HUGE. When I saw the 800 pound flavor text I didnt have a problem because I thought it was density and not nessissarily size. Now if Gargs are suppose to be alot larger than humanoids I guess I have an issue with that and we need to tone them down. i would also like to take out theflavor text about eye site.

Basically player races cannot have flavor texts like this because then they get used in game and players want to "use" these flavor texts. Forexample..I am 800 pounds I should be immune to press.

[Eli]

I agree with the 800lb thing and “creative” pcing. Personally hate when someone says, oh I weigh 800lb’s therefore I shouldn’t be able to be pressed… I say, was that in the powers? Then you get pressed.

As for costuming monsters, here is a problem, I put on one costume to be a goblin, and you put on another... we are both dressed up, we are both same monster type, but we look NOTHING alike… and from event to event, we change what the costume is…


Further, I think the problem occurs the most with unique npc monsters, like the “beast,” I really wasn't sure what it was. All I saw was him stalking toward me. Someone asked what do they see, and instead of an answer there was running and a whole lot of crush damage... suck.


If maybe monsters had certain colors like pc races use to… that would be cool.

It could be done with tabards too. That works for carps…

Apparently the great beast is only like 5'6'' to 5'8" and weighs like 150lbs... Seems like I could toss it over my shoulder and run around with it. If it was suppose to be a hulking best, well, a bunch of ripped up cloth for clothes and a mask DID NOT rep a huge hulking monster... more like a very small one that hits real hard for arms that size...
Just an example of what I mean… (for record no clue who played him, maybe Chris?)

[GM_Chris]

The beast of the first event was a humanoid with claws and kept the same costuming everytime..unless you talking a different beast in which case yeah dam that person!