Guid skills

dier_cire · Post by **dier_cire** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 8:08 am

level 4 is still pretty weak.
flee skill is less powerful than the proposed idea. Was you are immune to effects. Thus can't be countered with root/fear.
Assuming the booms are not given to those without the skill ahead of time.

Still think the whole system is trying to pull itself in two directions, reducing its effectiveness.

Todd · Post by **Todd** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 8:33 am

I think that your overlooking some amazingly powerful skills here.

Again, Type-O, you are correct about the Flee being All inclusive. I wrote it at 2:30am, and apparently my editing brain had already gone to sleep.

I'm unclear on exactly what you mean on the boom though. Please explain.

Lastly I think your looking at the Guild skills with blinders on. They really allow for so much more than I think your seeing at this time. Again though, Time will tell.

Peace420 · Post by **Peace420** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 10:11 am

Don't really understand why there are 2 boom damage bonuses and a few other boom bonuses, how about being able to move while charging other charged skills.

Another thing to note, it is possible now for an empath to move with 2 35 booms charged, way frickin' nasty. If the elf boon lets you move an elven empath would be 2 38 booms. Now that resist magic is a 5th level skill this seems like a bit too much.

dier_cire · Post by **dier_cire** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 10:30 am

Good luck getting a full elf guild to 4th level. Plus enjoy standing still for 2 minutes charging (as only one person could do it). And I'll still beat their ass with one foam rock (or handful just to ensure I hit).

As for the two directions, I'll explain.
Guild bonuses are geared towards increasing particular paths in general. Empaths get booms, thieves get backstab and traps, warriors get bleed time and life, healers get more healing, and sages get more sage stuff. Sounds great. Then in order to have the most powerful guild you need to all be the same race, which has zero to do with the above.

Switch that with all the same path and now you have really good reason to have a warriors guild, a thieves guild, etc. Plus it reduces the power of a superfriends guild. Currently, you can make a superfriends guild that is equal to if not more powerful than a pure path guild, since both can reach the same guild level. This change would change that.

Peace420 · Post by **Peace420** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 10:37 am

Not if they charge and then come after you, I'm not talking about in battle, I'm talking about an empath walking around with 2 35 booms charged and unloading on someone. And I'm thinking of the big picture, if this game does get off of the ground and have say 50 players, having 6 elves form a guild with a few empaths isn't that far fetched.

dier_cire · Post by **dier_cire** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 10:43 am

If I saw someone walk at me with two booms, I'd throw a rock/piece of bread/etc at them.

Course at night you won't see the booms, but that's a whole other topic of issue.

Peace420 · Post by **Peace420** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 10:48 am

Some of the elves walk around with a boom charged most of the time, Eli does for sure so you're saying that when someone walks around with a boom charged they should be attacked. I don't think you really want that.

dier_cire · Post by **dier_cire** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 10:53 am

I have no issue with it. If you think the person might attack you, go for it. If I want to have some fun with Eli, I'll poke him and disrupt his charge. Walking around town with a charge is alot harder now since you can be disrupted after it's charged. You do anything but concentrate/walk, you loose the charge.

Plus, booms are supposed to be blatently obvious that they are charged. Sorry but you can't hide a big ball of energy.

Todd · Post by **Todd** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 6:23 pm

The Rogue has a few skills to boost, Barter, Backstab, multiple Trap bonus', etc. Empaths only get 2 skills that can be boosted. Transfer, and Boom. And only the leader, of a forth lvl all elf guild could walk with the big Boom. Is it scary? Yes, it should be. If built properly a Rogue leader (rogue leader, hehe) could charge for 5 seconds, do a 14 point backstab, then swing 5 Damage 5 or 6 times, while being able to resist Magic, all in less then 10 seconds. Scary too.

There are many Bonus's, and many Combinations. Ultimately the guild leader is going to build a guild to a certain strength. An All Elven guild made up of each of the 5 Paths, could benifit greatly by mixing and matching Guild skills. Of course the leader may choose all Empath skills because he is an Empath, but thats how it works. Dont like it choose another leader.

The problem, and the way I see it.
'Superfriends' The term is missused. It does NOT refer to the mixing of the Paths. This game was built with the concept that if you try to go it alone, you die. That simple. There is suposed to be Racial tension. There shouldnt be many guilds with a variety of Races. An all Race guild represents a hoarding of knowledge. A 'Good-Ol-Boys Network' so to speak. You are elitists who gain extra training by shutting others out of the loop. Is an all Race guild tough to maintain, especially at higher levels? Yes, but doing so can give you that edge if you can pull it of.

I dont know how to explain it any better than that.

dier_cire · Post by **dier_cire** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 10:58 pm

Problem is, who wants rules governing racism? Racial tension should be pure roleplaying, if the players choose to ignore it, then it's their right. Forcing people to act like they don't like/dislike each other is just a waste. Plus, I'd can't think of one fantasy novel written where the heroes are all one race.

As for picking a new leader, guilds aren't formed that way. We don't just sit around and say hmm, I think I'll make a guild that benefits me, wonder if anyone will join? The guild is planned out way before with the main members all giving input.

Personally, I'd much rather see the all race thing thrown out in favor of an all path guild getting the bonus. It's much more in line with what you are aiming for in a guild and encourages different guilds to work together in adventuring parties.

Granted, I really have no idea what you are aiming for via guilds anyway. In a perfect world what would the guilds look like? Who would be in what guild? I've always heard thieves guild, warriors guild, alchemists guild, etc. The current system does not support this vision.

Azara Blackhawk · Post by **Azara Blackhawk** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 8:28 am

Ok, I'm going to have to agree with Eric on this one. Why do you guys want racial tension so badly?

In Azara's case, sure she was leery of the elves at first, but over time they have actually been there for her and that is the reason in the end why she ended up in that guild.

What are you PTB (Powers that be) wanting out of us and if we came across out allies be them human, or in Azara's case or not, through honest role-playing. It sounds as if you are now penalizing the mixed guilds because they are just that mixed race guilds.

I think the racial tension idea is not exactly a great idea because in order to survive in a type of environment that has been created, the smart people will look to whomever be them dwarf, elf, gnome, etc to live. It is a person in survial mode at it's finest.

Todd · Post by **Todd** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 11:08 am

History is rife with examples of racial tension. Fictional books, and movies as well. Racism is the norm, not the exception. You found a way to role-play your tolerance. Fantastic. We have no rules that say you must react in a certain way, if you choose to ignore it so be it. But the rest of the world might not look at it the same way. The high lvl guild skills reward those groups who follow societal norms. The system is, and was, designed to encourage this. It Allows for Path Guilds, but it Encourages Racial Guilds. They are Rewards, not Handycaps.

~fin~

dier_cire · Post by **dier_cire** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 2:49 pm

I still stand that racism should never be encouraged in any system via rules or rewards. If it's in the history fine, and if some people choose to act it, great, but it shouldn't be encouraged.

It's not even followed much anyway in game. Almost every pc finds a way to be an exception to the rule.

Nelkie · Post by **Nelkie** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 3:34 pm

Ok, as I see it the way the current rules are stated is a guild is an adventuring party. To get more power than make the guild 1 race.

There is no benifit for starting up an alchimist guild, a smithy's guild, warriors guild, etc...

Do you want guilds of adventuring parties (aka, racial guilds), or do you want guilds of like skilled people working together (Guilds focusing on magic, thieving,etc)? But multiple guilds will form 1 adventuring party.

The current guild Idea could work with about 50-80 PC's, but the guild system needs to be one or the other, not both.

kmeinka · Post by **kmeinka** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 4:20 pm

I have always felt that the role-playing at CARPS and Final Haven was some-what lacking because of the fact that racsims that were set down in the rule book were never observed. I think playing up that racsim could make the game far more interesting. We should be creating characters based on how we want to role-play, not on how we can become the most powerful.