Allegiance

[Amagus]

Okay, I just completed the Allegiance-handling portions of the FH program, and realized I may have it all wrong.

According to the rules, standard PCs can support a guild head, or support someone for Royalty.
A Guild Head can support a House Head, or support someone for Royalty.
A House Head and Royalty can only support someone for Royalty.

But then really anyone could receive anyone else’s Allegiance under ‘supporting for Royalty’. Thus a Guild Leader could get a House’s Allegiance, and use it to further the Guild.

Is this true?

[Trevor Owen]

I believe you cannot be royalty and also a guild or house head. Thus if a house supports a guild leader for royalty, he has to give up the leadership to become a royal.

[Nelkie]

Allgence must be passed upwards. It can never be sent downward unless a skills says different. Also a person can not be both Guild/Royal/House head. Each postition needs to be filled by a different person.

Guild to House to Royal
Indivual to anyone they want

[WayneO42]

Nelkie is right Mechanically. I actually started working on a clarification for the rulebook.

Basically:

Situation 1: Individual supports a person as a Guild Head or Royal
Example1: JoJo supports BoBo as the head of the guild of Stinking Toads

Example2: JoJo supports Lysol the Cleanly as Royalty


Situation 2: A Guild Head can Support a person as a House Head or as a Royal.
Example1: BoBo as the Head of the Guild of Stinking Toads Supports Stumpy the Lesser as the head of House Shorty-Shorty-Short-Short

Example2: BoBo as the Head of the Guild of Stinking Toads supports Lysol the Cleanly as Royalty


Situation 3: A House Head can support a person as a Royal.

Stumpy the Lesser as the head of House Shorty-Shorty-Short-Short supports Lysol the Cleanly as Royalty

Situation 4: A Royal Can Support another Royal of Higher LevelExample: Lysol the Cleanly as Level 1 Royalty supports BilliBobJoMack as a Level 2 Royal



Problems: What happens if people support two different characters as the head of an org? Do the votes still count for the org? Who is then the true leader of the org?

Possible Solution: The application should spit out a list of People who are "Qualified" to receive a vote and what org they are a part of so the voter just chooses a person and thats that. Leaders of Secret Orgs would only show up if the person voting is listed as a member of that org.

The leader of an org can be changed by the current leader or by three members if the current leader is dead or gone. There should be a form for this that is filled out and sent/given to the GM staff.

[GM-Mike]

I think you support a person, not an organization. If two people from the same guild are being supported, I see no reason why the guild should receive all of the points. This would represent internal strife within the organization which could and should be able to bring the organization down. If the problem exists because organizations are trying to do the min max shuffle and poorly communicate, well, oops, good thing you have a buffer event to straighten that out. If you vote for a dead guy, well, oops, good thing you have that buffer...
But that's just my opinion.

[Peace420]

Another problem that I actually talked to Chris about.

If someone wants to support a house head IG their their allegiance is wasted. What mechanical reason is there for not being able to support a house head directly? I realize that it could be considered a guild if 3 people support them but it doesn't have to be. The people that support directly should just count towards total allegiance, and not get any of the benefits of a guild. It just doesn't make sense that someone can't give their allegiance to anyone that they want.

[Nelkie]

I agree with Eric. I person should be able to support anyone.

Also, Can someone explain how allgence points are viewed in game. I have talked to chris about this and this is how I see it.

A guild/house/royal have many people/equipment working for them bring in the trade routes and doing the work. I see a person allgence points is how many people, assests, influence a person has/controls that can help in the efforts of an orginzation. Is this true or is there a different ingame explination of what allgence points are?

[GM-Mike]

The book states "a representation of the character’s political power based on experience (the power of face and name recognition), race (the power of discrimination), wealth (the power of money), and to a certain extent Lifestyle (the power of manners and etiquette, or in the case of the Savage, the lack thereof)." Allegiance is simply the political power one character has based on the factors above and the support of others.

[Amagus]

So anyone, royalty included, can support someone who isn't royalty in an effort to make them royalty, or to increase their royalty rank?

So the only real restrictions would be -

1. Royalty cannot give allegiance to a Guild or House Head.

2. House Heads cannot give allegiance to Guild Heads.

Or, is there a third restriction:

3. No one other than Guild Heads can give allegiance to House Heads?

[WayneO42]

Ok, an alternate way to do allegience would be to say that an individual can only give allegiance to an ORGANIZATION.

An Organization then has its own allegiance pool that it can give to another organization of a higher level. The leader of the org controls the votes.

I think that may make things a little easier. Its less "Personal" than now but a heck of alot easier

[GM-Mike]

Currently in the rules, no one other than guild heads can give allegiance to house heads. I believe the rationale for that was that a house was made up of two or more organizations. It would be somewhat equivalent to a merger in these days where two organizations become one. If Pepsi and Coke merged to become Poke, then Joe the psychotic unemployed weirdo can't become a part of the organization just because he likes their president but everybody in Pepsi and Coke are now Poke employees (until half are fired but that is neither here nor there). They would of course continue making Pepsi and Coke so some would still be working the Pepsi division and some the Coke division and when they hired new people, they would go to one of the two divisions. That is all that is being represented here.

[Peace420]

OK but where do the stockholders of Poke fit in? They would represent the people that don't work for (part of a house guild) but still support the company(house) in a different way. They don't get a salary or health care(benefits of a guild) they get dividends.

[Nelkie]

Ok, I see where allgienve points come from, but what are there ingame effect? What is the ingame repersentation of a person allgence. That is what I'm asking.

[Amagus]

I see allegiance as how influencial a person or organization is. When someone who’s been around awhile and has political connections (political skills) – thus has many allegiance point – says ‘jump’ – a lot of people are going to jump. In contrast, few people will jump for that new savage bumpkin guy.

And what of royalty? That’s giving points to a single person – a person who must start out as non-royalty until enough people contribute their allegiance.

[GM-Mike]

I see it as Doug sees it. Allegiance is your personal "wow" factor. The more you have, the more influence you have with others, especially NPC's. So to answer yuor question Aaron, it is represented by the things you mentioned in the reverse order that you mentioned them in terms of importance: influence number one, assets number two, and people number three.

Erik, I see where you are going with the stockholder thing, though that is a bit of a different relationship than what exists is Haven. I'm not necessarily opposed to your proposal of voting directly for House Heads, just trying to give you the original rationale