Ideas and Questiosn from the Event

[dier_cire]

Personally, I think we have too many ways to heal someone in negatives. Everyone can do it. And it extends the negative limit farther every time a new thing is brought into game. This is a bad idea and has gotten way out of hand. (Insert my overused rant about finishing rules and having people to check these things)

The transfer life skill needs a replacement as it's only real use is negatives.
The arcane should never have had a healing spell, and it certainly shouldn't heal negatives (spells shouldn't replicate skills).

Personally, I liked the idea of surgery and 2 potions. Either limit the empath to his own life (limiting the max to say 2 life), or give him something else.

Healing max would be 20, granted at a huge cost which is fine. Typical would be 12-14 with minimal cost. Now set the ressurection negs at between 15-20 and you are done. Give the arcane the ability to hold off that death and lose the life switching spell and healing ones. Simple and no one is stepping on each others abilities.

[GM_Chris]

Eric I want cunstructive critism and saying things like we should have tested something oes nothing but make me angry. It is posts like this that make it sound we are incompetent and somehow you know all. This is un cool.


Now...transfer life is fine

As for the arcane, I agree that we should not havenessissarily put in a healing skill. That said there is a healing skill, it is expensive, doesnt do too much, and there is a big risk to the arcane.

I am FINE with heroic efforts to bring a person back from big negitives. I think it brings out great role-playing, is dramatic,and it isnt easy.

Our issue is only with after death issues. This is when it should become difficult and it sint. We will fix hisin the off season with only a couple minor changes.

[dier_cire]

I'm sorry I have to be a broken record but when breaks occur that are direct result of untested ideas, it sucks. It's just lack of good testing, and if this was a real company trying to deliever a real product, it wouldn't be tolerated. In my job, if/when we have released a dirty product, we have caught holy hell for it. It's a pain and it sucks, but if you release something that doesn't work, you have to expect repercussions.

I'm not all knowing by any means but I do know there is a very tried and true development cycle to any product and following it will severely limit errors. This is from pure experience, mostly from the fact that I've made these exact mistakes.

As for constructive, I've given (as have many others) our ideas for ways to solve the problem. If you don't like my ideas, fine, use someone else's. You guys have never listened to me in the past, so what's changed? Making special rules for specific circumstances is a band aid type fix and is a waste of time though.

Honestly, pc driven spell and potion creation is a nightmare that should have never existed. A fixed system is the only way to maintain control.

Understand I'm not giving you crap because I don't like the game. I do. It's just you are so close to a finished type product but just keep stumbling over the stones in the road and it sucks to watch and be unable to do anything about it. I'm overly hard because you know as well as I do, I don't sugar coat things. I'm blunt and non-diplomatic.

[Dallid]

I, too, like -12-15 and no potions.

Yes, First Aid, Surgery, and, of course, Extend Life, all suspend bleeding. Bleeding continues from current count when these skills stop being applied. However, if Surgery is stopped before being completed, the patient dies instantly (no Surgery-Revive possible).

[GM_Chris]

So if we made it 15 then 3 chips would have to be drawn making it a 30% chance of perma death everytime you died. This is not bad.


The only issue I see with this is say a person is at neg 29...well the process now is to wait for them to die then use the healer 15 second rez thang since it is easier to heal (will be fixed in off season). But even if that is gone you can take that situation and simply let them die and attempt a resurection at neg 15.

Then again I dont nessissarily care about the second chance. It helps equalize things in the game. For example lets say I Hate Ried so much I just gun for him at the event. Resurection allows the players to kind of equalize those situations It is not a bad thing.

Might wonder why I bring that up..but it is because you could make the argument that if a person was say dead 2 weeks there should be alot more preperation of the body to get it ready considering it is way worse off than neg 15 life.

Basically, once death occurs it should be some scary scary scary scary stuff. Time should be a major issue. If you loose you head, have to have it reattached, and then raised..how many chips do you draw???? Should it be any diiferent. Should potions help in these cases?

Needs to be simple and all on the healer.

[Trevor Owen]

if you were under -15 or -20 when you died, you shouldn't start the healing at -15 or -20, you should start where you were. If you were at -29 there is no advantage to waiting for you to die to begin healing if you are still bleeding out. Beyond -20 it should be very VERY difficult to bring someone back. To get that beat up, you were in a very bad place you shouldn't be in.

That said, I am in favor of heroic efforts to save someone. I am just not in favor of people throwing themselves into battle with no fear of the consequences.

Even our NPCs are working on being more realistically afraid, running from fights that go against them, etc.

[WayneO42]

Here are my ideas for 8 Simple Rules to make death scarey:

1) If you are dropped beyond -15 in a battle, you are dead.

2) A person who is in critical life cannot be the target of any potions or spells unless expressly stated in the description of the potion or spell.

3) In order for the empath to use their skill, a complete body is needed.

4) In order to cast the call essence spell, the caster must be in contact with the body

5) If surgery is interupted or botched (Red chip) the patient is permanently dead.

6) The call essence ritual must be started within 2 hours of death.

7) After the empath res skill, the target is at -15 life. The empath's ability to drain another target at this time in order to reduce the negatives the res target returns at should be removed.

8)Change Empath Transferance to read:

Transference

The Empath can drain 2 life from a target, even themselves, and give another target one life point in return, up to the character’s maximum life. This ability takes a 20 count to activate and you must be touching your target. At any time you take damage or move you are considered interrupted and must make the 20 count again. The Empath can only drain positive life from an individual. Thus, once a player hits zero life, they can no longer be drained.

[GM_Chris]

I like all of these except for the neg 15 life your dead thang.

I think this is anti intuitive to people and thus we should just let people keep tracking their life. If we get rid of negative life potion usage (which I am not positive about) it will owrk itself out.

Now for the potion part. I am on the fence about this because it kinda gets rid of determination as a useful skill. What was nice about determination is that you could use a potion while in negatives.

I am all for people doing everything they can do for a person who is at some huge negative life total to bring them back, including all the tricks we have. Infact as I type this I would say potions should be used. I say this for drama. If death is VERY hard to come back from, but at least while you are in negatives you have a chance then you can have those moments where you as a player are like MY GOSH SAVE ME! Please Don't let me die please please please.

Plus I want players to use ALL kinds of resources in the attempt to bring a person back.

[Zydana]

The idea of perma death scares me (as it should). I like the idea that if a soul has enough will and desire to come back, it should be able to (Perhaps even in some ways we don't know yet). I'd rather see a lower chance of perma death, but it be more of a burden for the player to come back from the dead rather than the large burden being on those trying to bring it back.

Something like, when someone is brought back to life, they are considered starving for X amount of hours or some other set of rules for the body and soul to recover from the soul being pulled from the body and then thrown back in much later. As I said, they should have to recover from being dead for some amount of time and not be able to cause this time from passing quicker by the means of potions or magic.

This would prevent someone who just died to jump into the next fight as soon as they are able. This idea and perma death would make players less careless about dying.

[Peace420]

because it kinda gets rid of determination as a useful skill. What was nice about determination is that you could use a potion while in negatives.

That was my point in the discussion we had yesterday in IRC. If you can't drink potions in negs then determination becomes nearly useless, you could crawl for a minute, which would get you nowhere really, and yell for help.

[WayneO42]

ok...How about you can still use potions in negatives being part of the determination skill but at -15 life you are dead. I dont mean Dead Dead, just mostly dead. You need to be raised.

[Peace420]

That was my suggestion as well, in negs yes, once you have died no during the res process.

[GM_Chris]

See I dont think that is nessissary. the problem Wayne isnt that people are going to neg 100000 and not dieing and comming back, but that a person dies and then comes back.

We already fixed the issues with neg 100000 healing in our last group of fixes and I think saying neg 15 makes you perma dead is too far and adds a rule that is non intuitive to a new player.

If a player gets to say neg 25 life then to bring them back right now means two 4 point heals by healer ='s 10 points, 2 points from first aid, and 10 points for surgery. This makes 22 points. Without an empath..which cannot really be used 3 chips would have to be drawn, or 1 chip and a 2 point potion.

At neg 30 it starts to get really expensive and difficult.

Overall I guess I am saying that the mechanics will work themselves out when a person is in negatives and the focus should be after a person dies.

[WayneO42]

We already fixed the issues with neg 100000 healing in our last group of fixes and I think saying neg 15 makes you perma dead is too far and adds a rule that is non intuitive to a new player.

I actually said in my post that at -15 I dont think you should be perma dead, just dead. Then the res process can start. I think it is an easier rule than keeping track of your negative total. You hit -15 and you are done keeping track of things. Just lay there and concentrate on being dead. Its not that difficult of a rule and it would provide a buffer so we know that they are at most going to draw 3 chips.

[Claude du Sinjin]

Another note regarding the possbility of death at neg 15...

Chris gets a lil froggy when he's calling out stuff like 2 lash, with a -15 rule he'd be accidently killing people left and right. Me, I lost count of my total at -28.

Also, there are several things that you can do using determination that will take you well beyond -15. I've keep moving and trash talking to wood wraiths so that they would focus on me as opposed to party members that are still fighting. I knew I was going to die, but I kept moving so that Kels and Sethreal wouldn't have another wraith on them. In doing so I guaranteed my death but bought them time, but with the -15 rule I wouldn't have survived 20 seconds after hitting the ground.