Monks and Fists

[Nelkie]

Here's my take.

Everyone can swing zero damage with a fist.
A fist is considered a melee weapon. Can be use rage/hero point with a fist
If a fist is hit, you take damage.

Everyone has the following skill.

Takes a life point to activate
Can swing 1 damage with one fist until skill is deactivate.
All incoming damage is considered crush
Must do a 5 count to deactivate this skill

[dier_cire]

I still propose that if/when a skill for everyone to use a fist is added, having it added to each basic path list of skills. Reason being then people aren't having to look in another location to find skills and skill descriptions.

Otherwise I have no issue with a life point versus a 5 count to activate, since if you are on the brink of passing out (ie 1 life), you probably aren't going to fight very well anyway.

[Gomja555]

I was trying to stay away from this but really I cant. Theres two things I've got to say ;

One is the first rule of gaming:KISS; keep it simple stupid

Two is that if you do this why not make it so everyone can use a bow or throw a rock or hell we've gone that far why not say that if you burn a life you can cast a spell. It will escalate and there is no reason for it . By making it so everyone can use a fist you take away the resons some people have for playing monks and unbalence the game. Weather you see it or not.

[Onimaster]

I was trying to stay away from this but really I cant. Theres two things I've got to say ;

One is the first rule of gaming:KISS; keep it simple stupid

Two is that if you do this why not make it so everyone can use a bow or throw a rock or hell we've gone that far why not say that if you burn a life you can cast a spell. It will escalate and there is no reason for it . By making it so everyone can use a fist you take away the resons some people have for playing monks and unbalence the game. Weather you see it or not.

Simple is good. Simple is elegant. But, I see KISS as a guideline not a rule. Sometimes stupid simple just doesn't get the job done. Oversimplified is just as bad as overcomplicated. Not to mention that I see some of the suggestions here as very simple fixes.

Because, a ranged attack is a valid reason not to allow access to something without points, and everyone has access to magic by choice without points by taking the basic Empath path.

There is no reason for anything to escalate any further than the GM's desire no matter how much noise we make, but I like that we have input how the mechanics function so we can make this a game we all enjoy playing.

The reasons people play monks are still untouched as I see it. There are plenty of boons to taking the discipline even if they add a basic and fundamental punching mechanic including: dual weapons, no penalties for blocking, feign death, block arrows, and so on.

[GM_Chris]

alot of things seem simple to players who have played or are not new to LARPING. This whole debate is hard to see if it is cmplicated or not.

[WayneO42]

I have had a rough week so I am only going to make a quick post. Ignore anything that seems beligerant. As I said above...long week.

Do Not mistake the thorough examination and debate of a topic as shooting down an idea. As GMs, if we didnt think your comments were valid then we would simply ignore them. Plain and simple. If you think we dont take your comments into consideration, talk to some of the players who went through multiple seasons of playtesting. Then, take a look at the FH rules from the first event and compare them to now. FH is not a static rule set by any means.

As GMs we take change and player input very seriously and look at things from all angles. After almost 10 years of LARP GMing, I have had a fair share of bites on the ass caused by snap decissions and "minor" changes. I have also gotten a fair number of knocks that could have been avoided if I had listen to the player base.

Bottom line, We are listening and absorbing ideas even if we dont agree with them. If you cant handle your ideas being picked apart, dont post them. If you simply want to make suggestions and dont want debate, thats fine too, just send them via PM or email.

[Varys Snow]

Because, a ranged attack is a valid reason not to allow access to something without points, and everyone has access to magic by choice without points by taking the basic Empath path.

The reasons people play monks are still untouched as I see it. There are plenty of boons to taking the discipline even if they add a basic and fundamental punching mechanic including: dual weapons, no penalties for blocking, feign death, block arrows, and so on.

Your first part doesn't make sense. If you are saying that anyone can use magic for free by choosing to be an Empath when they create their character, they can also choose to follow the Archer, Grenadier or Monk disciplines at the same time and not spend any points there either, since the first level of your first discipline is free. The current situation is that people want to give an ability to everyone for free, regardless of character level. If that is not what you meant, please clarify.

For myself, however, as one of the two(?) monks in the game, one of the main reasons I chose it was for the ability to never be disarmed, unlike any other path or discipline in the game. It is the one thing that makes the monk unique. Everyone can "dodge" arrows -- carry a shield. Everyone can block with their weapons. OK, not everyone can cheat death. So there are currently 2 abilities the monk has that noone else does, and about 3 (including fighting with 2 weapons) that it shares with others.

Again, I think that everyone should be able to use a fist. However, I don't want to see my main ability as a monk nerfed, choaded, ganked or whatever you want to call it.

[Onimaster]

Point taken, hate it when I get rushed and contradict myself. Let me rehash what I said into what I meant.

Magic is not intrinsic to everyone in Fantara, as the way the setting is described. Only people trained (Arcane) or born into the ability to channel (empath) can do it, and more people can't t do it than can. But they have the option of taking it in character startup. But, basic functions of mobility and combat are.

Yes, I can relate to taking monk not to be disarmed. It is a great ability and a great boon, but that's why I/we were thinking something not as useful as monk but above nothing. So you will still be the only one not at a horrible disadvantage.

[dier_cire]

eh, actually after re-looking at the life point to use, I do have an issuewith it.

life point skills are not charged skills. making swinging a fist a life point skill makes it too powerful. It needs to be a charged ability as they are inheritly weaker than life point skills as you you can lose them via being touched. As a life point skill, a monk vs. an unarmed oppenent would be an even match.

And also for note, let's keep on topic here and keep things mostly constructive. Disagreeing is fine, but try to keep it within reason.

[Onimaster]

Do Not mistake the thorough examination and debate of a topic as shooting down an idea. As GMs, if we didnt think your comments were valid then we would simply ignore them. Plain and simple. If you think we don't take your comments into consideration, talk to some of the players who went through multiple seasons of play-testing. Then, take a look at the FH rules from the first event and compare them to now. FH is not a static rule set by any means.

As GMs we take change and player input very seriously and look at things from all angles. After almost 10 years of LARP GMing, I have had a fair share of bites on the ass caused by snap decissions and "minor" changes. I have also gotten a fair number of knocks that could have been avoided if I had listen to the player base.

Bottom line, We are listening and absorbing ideas even if we dont agree with them. If you cant handle your ideas being picked apart, dont post them. If you simply want to make suggestions and dont want debate, thats fine too, just send them via PM or email.

No, you guys do listen well, and I appreciate allowing the forum to discuss...

I'm sorry if I seem belligerent myself; I don't mean to be. I just get frustrated sometimes. I fully admit my ideas may be infeasible, but I also feel that I can help. You Gms are usually some of the best at listening in and playing with ideas that come up without just shooting things down right away. I honestly wish I lived closer to you guys so we could have these discussions in person...

[dier_cire]

I honestly wish I lived closer to you guys so we could have these discussions in person...

hehe, you've obviously never seen a rules meeting...