Monks and Fists

[DrakelenasElderich]

Here are some ideas I had for new monk Disciplines.

Savage

Level 1: Hardened Hands (Can fight and block with 2 fist physreps)
Level 2: Combat Reflexes (2 AP)
Level 3: Advanced Hardened Hands (Can fight and block with 2 Dagger sized physreps)
Level 4: Stone Hand (Can make a 30 sec. count for 10 crush)

Priviledged

Level 1: Student (Can fight and block with 1 fist physrep)
Level 2: Apprentice (Can fight and block with 2 fist physreps)
Level 3: Teacher (Spend 1 LP to reduce an incoming frontal attack to 0)
Level 4: Master (Spend 1 LP to swing 2 Damage with fists, can use rage)


The Priviledged one seems a little powerful, but i thought about only getting 1 LP for being Priviledged. So it seemed ok.

The Savage 4th level make's it worth takeing all the way, thats why I add that. I thought about a Warrior Orc getting enraged and breaking apart a shield.

Ideas??

[dier_cire]

The savage 4th is kinda weak (I'll explain in a sec) and the privileged 3rd and 4th is overpowered. (again, I'll explain)

Savage, spending 30 seconds to hit someone for 10 crush is great and all but honestly, you'll never get it off. You have the range of a dagger and can't be hit while charged. It's a thief skill. And at 30 seconds, it'd really suck to be hit with a packet for 1 as you ran to hit someone. A lower damage with a lower count would be more appropriate and more effective (ala druid).

Privileged, well, giving them a slightly diluted parry is way too powerful. Parry should be reserved for warrior only. Giving them +1 damage as well is huge. You've basically given them master level warrior between these two skills. Toss in the fact that you can swing 3 with a fist and you're the most powerful warrior on the field. You can swing 3, have a shield and have quite a bit of armor via warrior and knight (no matter what the armor requirements are). Or you can swing 2 and have all your other skills available (why anyone would do this is beyond me however).

[dier_cire]

Ok, even though this concept has been beat to death, I'm still going to stick with these two concepts:

anyone can use a fist as it is a legal melee weapon for all to use just like every other weapon in game. Base damage for this weapon is 0, cannot block and is immune to disarm. Other than that it functions like any other weapon.

New skill in each basic path: You may do a 5 count to "blah". While "blahing", you may do 1 damage with a fist. To turn off "blah" a character must also make a 5 count.
(note: no need to mention rage as it is a charged skill and thus not useable with rage already)

Modify all backstabs to be "non-fist melee weapon"

Modify parry to read ...while using a non-fist melee weapon...

Modify level 1 monk to read monk gains +1 damage while using a fist. Does not stack with "blah"

Modify level 2 assasin to read "coat a non-fist melee weapon" (I'd say bladed too)



Add savage discipline with fists...
1: gains +1 damage with a fist. Does not stack with "blah"
2: gains +2 armor
3: may use dagger sized fist phys reps and may block with fists
4: gains +1 damage with a fist (not stackable with rage or "blah")

You get dual undisarmable daggers that swing 2 and +2 armor total.


Overall effect: Each player may use a fist for zero at will, charge and swing until hit for 1 (is countered by a hit anywhere like any other charged skill). You get the savage discipline and warriors may rage for 1.

Why the warriors should be able to rage for 1:
Thieves and sages have knockout, empaths have booms, sages have any skill they want, healers are well sol, but warriors are unable to use any offensive ability. Kinda backwards, I think.

[WayneO42]

New skill in each basic path: You may do a five count to "blah". While using blah, you may do 1 damage with a fist.

You lost me here

[Peace420]

If a fist is a legal weapon for anyone then disciplines can use their abilities with it i.e. deliver poison with a glove, disenchant and so on. Not that it shouldn't be possible just pointing it out.

I would suggest that both a savage and priviledged discipline get ambidexterity at 1st. Something like this:

Savage: Brawler
1. Ambidexterity - May swing 2 fists for one damage
2. Resist Fear - May spend a life point to resist fear
3. Iron fists - May block with fists, can dual wield a short weapon with a fist
4. Crushing Blow(s) - 5 crush for 10 count or +1 damage with fists only, no rage

Priviledged: Pugilist
1. Ambidexterity - May swing 2 fist for one damage
2. Press - May spend a life point to press (classic boxer shove)
3. Combat reflexes - Gain 2 AP that regen after 5 mins
4. Immunity to press - (boxer lean) or Knockout Blow - 3 KO for 15 count (maybe shorter count or more KO)

[dier_cire]

You lost me here

It's the do a five count swing for one concept that has been around for awhile. Granted, it was modified as Chris suggested to not be just one strike but as many strikes until hit (aka a charged version of rage basically). If the word blah is the issue, that's just due to me not having a name for the skill

I haven't gone through all the skills to check if any others need modifying as far as using a fist goes. It'd just be adding in "non-fist melee weapon" vs. "melee weapon".

As for poison, poison glove sounds dumb, but well poison twig doesn't sound much better and that's legal.

I'll look through the skills and add the ones that'd need a change in.

Ok, did it. Noticed a few things... posting here:
http://www.finalhavenlarp.com/phpBB2/vi ... 5690#15690

[Peace420]

As for poison, poison glove sounds dumb, but well poison twig doesn't sound much better and that's legal.

Never said it wasn't cheesy as all hell, just legal. And a twig isn't crafted by a craftsman so that would not be legal.

[dier_cire]

by twig I meant dagger sized blunt weapon. I just have trouble conceptualizing how you poison someone by hitting them with a wooden maglight.

[Peace420]

by twig I meant dagger sized blunt weapon. I just have trouble conceptualizing how you poison someone by hitting them with a wooden maglight.

I'm hip

[Ian_McAllister]

Just to add my two cents about poison.. there are many type of poisons.. such as contact poisons.. and besides that.. if I have a poisoned club that needs to get in your blood.. when I beat you with a club and do LP damage I have essentially broken the skin of your body and you are bleeding.. allowing the posion to enter your bloodstream.. mind you it is far less effective that a bladed weapon.. but it is possible.

[dier_cire]

My take on blunt weapon damage is more of internal bleeding and injury through impact, thus the difference of opinion.

[Onimaster]

Guild Skills no longer exist. The "Charge While Moving" skill would have been killed even if they still did. Charged skills are one of the foundations of our game. Introducing wide spread exceptions to the rule weakens that foundation. One off exceptions like magic items or potentially a potion are fine but an exception that effects all players is a bit much.

Okay, good to know.

Yes, the functionality of ‘charged’ skills shouldn’t be touched. However, the concept that the only type of action that can have a timed effect in a Larp system is pretty limiting. I mean, making a delay in a skill between uses other than a charging action isn’t too complicated. Charging is a cost to perform certain actions the other is a limitation on effect, and a straightforward one. I think the line between the two is pretty clear and effective.

Change for change's sake is bad. If we are going to make a change it needs to be one that will benefit the game. Most players and GMs are not sold on the fact that hand-to-hand combat would benefit the game. I think it will but we need a solid mechanic that fits within the framework of the game. We have not exhausted enough options yet to resort to changing fundamentals. If we get to a point where we need to, then we will take a serious look at bending the framework.

If there is one thing I have learned over the years as a LARP GM and rules mechanic is that you cannot change the framework of your system lightly. It inevitably effects more things than you can foresee and weakens other areas of the game.

Your right, change for change’s sake alone is very bad. But, so is brushing off new ingenuities just because it’s always been done a different way.

Hence I said we should consider ideas on merit. To examine if an idea isn’t just different, but also helpful, solid, and an improvement on what groundwork has been laid.

I understand not wanting to change frameworks lightly, but the framework has just undergone a HUGE change, and now is a good time to find places that still need tweeking. I know that the unskilled unarmed combat discussion is something that kind of crept under the radar, and was never a roleplay issue before Joe and I brought it up. I fully expect the rule to stay a no go, but I do think there could be a better system we could use that more closely replicates real world human interaction.

[Ravinal]

I have a question and a comment. My question is if your charging an ablity and you have a shield. If that shield gets hit, is the ablity still going? *I assume yes*

My comment is about change in the game. I totally understand wanting simplicity. Having looked at Carps, I see why this might be a good change of pace every once in awhile. Yet with every game that I've seen evolve, nothing becomes simplier without being better than what might have been unique. And having the ablity to strongly define your character as unique does usually require extensive rules. Which is why I like FH, the happy medium between unique and simplicity.

Yet there seems to be so many people here against even talking about anything different. I can dig the adage 'if it ain't broke don't fix it'. Yet, if your still wearing the same bell bottoms and fro from the seventies in this day and age..........the bell bottoms may not need a patch in them, but they could probably use an update.

To conclude, Im happy that people are atleast starting to be open minded about probable future changes.

[dier_cire]

If the shield is hit, you lose the charge. If any part of you is hit, you lose the charge. Last I recall, you don't even have to be hit with damge, someone can just swing and not call damage and you'd still lose the charge. After looking at the description, it's kinda vague.

btw, I'm not against change, I'm just the person who will find every excuse not to change until current holes are fixed.

[GM_Chris]

As Eric says you loose the charge

Alternate idea for unarmed combat.

Spend an LP to get the charged skill (unarmed combat) this allows you to swing 1 fist for 1 damage until you are hit and disrupted. You may then immeadiatly spend another LP to reactivate unarmed combat. While conducting unarmed combat all hits taken are vorpal. You may not block incomming attacks with a fist physrep. Acidental blocks still hit you.

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Now you reword the disciplines to remove things like vorpal damage and such.

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Not sure I like it, presonally rather it all be handled under a discipline.

Chris