Monks and Fists

[Kidwynn]

This might end up being another topic...

Chris, if you remove disarm when what were you thinking about switching the 3rd lvl swashbuckler ability to? Disarm is their third lvl ability. There is a counter to it if you well are a full path warrior called parry.

Just wanna throw that out there.

As for lash, it's adding yet another call to the growing FH calls and at least for me, one of the reasons I like FH is beause it has far fewer calls then the other LARP I play in. Adding lash would be like making it a mini version of that game.

Lash is extremely powerful and seriouly I don't mind seeing it on a rare NPC, but should not in be in the hands of the PCs.

[Onimaster]

This might end up being another topic...

Chris, if you remove disarm when what were you thinking about switching the 3rd lvl swashbuckler ability to? Disarm is their third lvl ability. There is a counter to it if you well are a full path warrior called parry.

Just wanna throw that out there.

As for lash, it's adding yet another call to the growing FH calls and at least for me, one of the reasons I like FH is because it has far fewer calls then the other LARP I play in. Adding lash would be like making it a mini version of that game.

Lash is extremely powerful and seriously I don't mind seeing it on a rare NPC, but should not in be in the hands of the PCs.

It's not adding another call because Lash is already in the game, and FH calls aren't growing they're shrinking, or at least being kept at the same number. We gained knockout, but that took the place of nerve pinch and that whole armor no armor stun strike issue. I agree that FH needs few calls to keep from going down the road that Carps did, but there is a difference between being reasonably simple and axing more calls than we need to just because we can.

Lash is nowhere near as powerful as disarm (Unless your talking like 45 lash, but 1 or 2 is different; especially when you're spending life to do it and unless your right next to someone they will say they weren't within 5 feet.)

[GM_Chris]

We can figure something out for 3rd level swashbucler. Everyone keeps complaining about it, and now we are discussing a whole new mechanic to counter it so perhaps it needs to go.

[Nelkie]

Before disarm goes, lets have a poll and find out who truely thinks disarm needs to go. I for one, like the skill and think it should stay.

[cole45]

The hand-to-hand mechanic was not asked for to counter shatter or Disarm. I like disarm. It makes sense. It gives people a way to defeat a foe with out killing them.

Tha Hand to hand mechanic was proposed to allow people (untrained) to fight each other in a mechanic driven way. It was to enchance the realism by introducing a mechanic. It was not intended to see real combat. in real combat you get your sorry butt kicked.

It was explictly asked for so that when two stubborn people decide they need to settle their differances, and do not with to draw a weapon on each other, they can go at it with their fists. Now you could call a game stop, and then stand there and negotiate the the "rules out of game" for a fist fight, but that adds a layer of metagaming that detracts from the fight. With the mechanic, they don't have to choriagraph anything, they just throw down their weapons and beat the snot out of each other. That way you don't have to have an out of character negotiation.

People keep talking about how you can just aggree to some stuff out of game. That KILLS the moment. Part of the catharitic nature of a fist fight is the hot blood and temper. You stop the game to discuss rules, and then it jerks you out of character and ruins what could have been an important event in a character's life. Hense the rule.

The Hand to hand rule is NOT supposed to be combat effective. that's the monk's deal. It IS supposed to protect the tapestry of reality within the game.

Now Shatter and disarm, I am pro. Shatter makes even the toughest warrior run away like a screaming baby. Disarm seriously changes the tactics. The Swashbuckler can only disarm as much as they have life. And it's not like you can't get the weapon back. It doesn't work on shields, so it's not like you will always be hosed. (again the HtH mechanic is not a counter to disarm. you would still die.)

Shatter, is obviously a rare special ability. It should be kept because it's obviously good. It gives a special creature an ability that will change the way the fighters deal with it. This is good. Fear is important thing to inpsire in both the characters, and the players. Shatter does this.(mmm Shatter Lash.)

Summary: Hand to hand is NOT a counter for Shatter/DIsarm. It is a tool to more realistically represent untrained fistycuffs. Shatter/disarm good.

[WayneO42]

The hand-to-hand mechanic was not asked for to counter shatter or Disarm..

What He said

[Dereck_Sandoval]

As long as I have breath, Lash will not be a melee skill

I Just Want to ask why. It can't be that bad the only thing that you could do is spend a hero point to bump it up one damage.

[Ug]

Lash is a melee skill for Empaths.

[dier_cire]

Ok, how far is 5 feet? You ask 5 people, you'll get 5 different answers. People are horrible judges of distance. 5 feet is actually a fairly large area. I mean, it's more or less a person laying down away from you. Lash only causes fights of "you were hit, no i wasn't" which wastes game time. I'm actaully against any non contact damage (with the exception of this affects everyone that's here)

And ultimately, with the lower level of phyiscal combat fantasy, circle kicks aren't really feasiable, as after hitting the first person all your force is expended.

[WayneO42]

It has nothing to do with its balance as a mechanic. My problems are:

1) It is an instant hit skill (You get hit by simply hearing the call and not by a phys rep) so you have no means of blocking other than with another skill. This pulls the player from the game and tugs on their suspension of disbelief. Skill only counters are a slippery slope

2) Its a difficult call to manage in a battle. How far is five feet? In the heat of battle if someone behind you calls lash and you are engaged with another fighter, do you look over your shoulder to see if you are within five feet and at the same time exposing yourself to your enemy?

3) Its just feels cheesy when over used but can be cool in a few cirumstances (like spells, traps, and bad ass creatures)

[WayneO42]

Lash is a melee skill for Empaths.

I know...I lost the argument at a rules meeting. It was a conspiricy.

[dier_cire]

You should have worn foil on your head... keeps out the conspiracies.

[GM-Mike]

I would just like to reemphasize for anyone who may be hoping for a quick resolution to this thread that no rule change will be encated this year unless it involves a major break in the game mechanics. This clearly does not fall into that category but rather into that special category of "A Few People Wanting To Beat the Snot Out Of Each Other In A Drunken Brawl." I'm betting that you didn't even know we had such a category.

Anyway, this is not meant to discourage friendly conversation on the topic but rather to inject our current rule philosophy, as previously stated, back into people's minds in case there was a hope, based upon previous experience, that we may continue to alter the rules each event. Once again, this will not happen.

Thank you for your time.

The Freak Marshall

[Ug]

Oo Oo! Let's add subdual damage!

[GM_Chris]

OK if someone ONLY wants to have a fist fight then lets look at the current suggestions.

1) 5 count between hits

Well as we know you cannot move while charging and if you are hit you have to start counting over again.

Explain to me how a fight will look like. Each person will stand there for 5 seconds staring intently. Now once charged assuming they sarted at the same time dance around to see who gets the first hit. Now they both stand again for 5 seconds and repeat. This continues for probably 2 to 5 minutes depending on soak.

Totally worthless in any real combat

2) 5 count and can swing as much as you want
Ok well with this call then whoever strikes first wins, but at least can be somewhat usefull in combat

3) hero point to swing damage
Well with this rule it is wonderful in combat, but now you are saying only those people who are warriors or over 20th level are allowed to participate in a fist fight.

With all this said 1 and 2 are defnitly out as an idea for fist fights because each are rules designed to fight in combat and as you have said no one is interested in that.

This leaves option 1 which is goofy and wierd so are there any other ideas?