How about something like:
Any character can swing 1 fist phys rep for 0(zero) damage. All damage done to a character while weilding a fist phys-rep is considered crush damage. The damage done with a fist phys-rep may be increased through the use of a hero point or the rage skill, however, the damage may never be raised beyond 1.
Monks and Fists
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Varlen Kal'jura
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Donovan Thynedar
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That's pretty much what I was going for, Wayne. I'd say add something that clarifies that monks don't take crush (either here or in the monk write-up) and call it good.
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Nice use of wording, beter to call it crush than say "you cannot block with a fist phys rep"
My fear is that in the atempt to create a situation where you can do damage when all is helpless and you have no other choices do to weapon breakage you are opening up exploitation by other people.
My fear is that in the atempt to create a situation where you can do damage when all is helpless and you have no other choices do to weapon breakage you are opening up exploitation by other people.
Chris
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Ian_McAllister
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I very much like Wayne's write-up, it seems to give an option for the use of a fist, but I don't see it being expoited all that much. With that rule it would be possible to do something if all you have is your hands, although it is still most likely you would die, but at least you would go out fighting.. which is how I know my character would want to go. (grin).
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Only problem I see is with that write-up, monks can never use rage or hero points (well they can use them, just they get no benefit from them). Also the damage being crush doesn't work as if I have a shield and get disarmed, I suddenly start taking crush.
Ultimately, base damage for a fist is 0. You cannot block with a fist. (These are both already in the rulebook, depending on the reading) Rage and hero points need "melee" added into their descriptions. Problem solved.
Ultimately, base damage for a fist is 0. You cannot block with a fist. (These are both already in the rulebook, depending on the reading) Rage and hero points need "melee" added into their descriptions. Problem solved.
Actually, in the monk unarmed combat skill description it will just state "In addition, a monk may raise the damage done with a fist beyond 1 through the use of other skills and/or a hero point"Only problem I see is with that write-up, monks can never use rage or hero points (well they can use them, just they get no benefit from them).
Only if you draw a fist phys rep and start fighting with it.Also the damage being crush doesn't work as if I have a shield and get disarmed, I suddenly start taking crush.
Wayne O
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So it appears what this thread is doing is making it so that the Warrior Path (and only the Warrior Path) will never truely be unarmed.
If this is really what you are trying to do, then why not just not put this in the book in the manner you wish to put it there and just put it under Rage instead so that non-warrior-path characters don't have to read that they can pull out a fist and hit for 0 and not block with it?
Do uber-mundane weapons have a cost to make? Like a Rock or small club for instance? If not, rather than carrying around a fist all the time, I'd likely just carry around a Large Rock phys-rep to pick up off the ground and bash people with (a fist colored gray).
What about taking crush from a fist but it doing 1 knockout? This may make rogues and sages happier as it would add 1 point to their knockouts, assuming they are being proper and using a fist phys-rep, that is. And then anyone can walk up to this big armored warrior and go BAM! with their fist, the big warrior snarls at them, then they run like hell.
OOOOOOOOORRRRR, you could make this like read/write and have the ability to use a fist to swing for 1 damage be purchased for X starting points or what-not. Give it a point cost so they can add it like an extra path skill mayhaps.
Not everyone is a fist-fighter, and not just warriors going beserk are either.
If this is really what you are trying to do, then why not just not put this in the book in the manner you wish to put it there and just put it under Rage instead so that non-warrior-path characters don't have to read that they can pull out a fist and hit for 0 and not block with it?
Do uber-mundane weapons have a cost to make? Like a Rock or small club for instance? If not, rather than carrying around a fist all the time, I'd likely just carry around a Large Rock phys-rep to pick up off the ground and bash people with (a fist colored gray).
What about taking crush from a fist but it doing 1 knockout? This may make rogues and sages happier as it would add 1 point to their knockouts, assuming they are being proper and using a fist phys-rep, that is. And then anyone can walk up to this big armored warrior and go BAM! with their fist, the big warrior snarls at them, then they run like hell.
OOOOOOOOORRRRR, you could make this like read/write and have the ability to use a fist to swing for 1 damage be purchased for X starting points or what-not. Give it a point cost so they can add it like an extra path skill mayhaps.
Not everyone is a fist-fighter, and not just warriors going beserk are either.
I don't really see why a shield and fist should lose to a single dagger, which is quite easy with crush.
I still don't see what is wrong with adding two words into the rule book and changing fist to 0 base, instead of adding a whole bunch of explanations that step on each other trying to fit in unarmed combat and still not fix the underlying problem...
I still don't see what is wrong with adding two words into the rule book and changing fist to 0 base, instead of adding a whole bunch of explanations that step on each other trying to fit in unarmed combat and still not fix the underlying problem...
Problem
The problem I see with the ruling above is that it doesn't allow most people to defend themselves at all. When do you get your first mandatory hero point? lvl 30? And you need to be a master warrior in order to use rage.
This means you still have a serious lack of choices for most people. I like the 5 count attack with one fist phys rep better, in that anyone can actually fight, and it is worse for the person doing the unarmed fighting.
with the Rage/Hero option there is a serious potential for abuse down the road. (crush helps to mitigate that.) And it just doesn't resolve the problem that we've been trying to fix.
This means you still have a serious lack of choices for most people. I like the 5 count attack with one fist phys rep better, in that anyone can actually fight, and it is worse for the person doing the unarmed fighting.
with the Rage/Hero option there is a serious potential for abuse down the road. (crush helps to mitigate that.) And it just doesn't resolve the problem that we've been trying to fix.
Travis Cole
Because the single fist Phys rep (or Phist) is meant to be a physical representation of the character actually fighting with both hands. If you are using a shield then you are not able to fully utilize your offensive potential. If you want to be defensive in a fight where you have a shield and no weapon, dont pick up a phist. Just use the shield to block until help arrives or you can reclaim a weapon.dier_cire wrote:I don't really see why a shield and fist should lose to a single dagger, which is quite easy with crush.
Wayne O
The Game Master Lite
Frag the weak, Hurdle the dead!
The Game Master Lite
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Abusive
To me the ability to machine gun with fists,(Hero/Rage) is only a tiny part of abuse that you might take. Now you can sneak up on a fully armed warrior from behind and beat the snarks out them with your fist.
The intent, was to make an option in which everyday people could fight with fists, (in a non effient way.) to allow them to A) Defend themselves whent he chips are down. and B. Better represent the way people can kill each other with their bare hands. The current rage/hero solution does NOT accomplish this.
the 5 second count DOES accomplish this. You could make the 5 second count, keep the crush rule, and your good. Now everyone can fight with one fist, but if you are fighting someone with a weapon your hosed.
rage/hero: Allows abuse. Does not allow everyone to fight, and does not represent normal people beating the crap out of each other.
5 second count:Allows less abuse, does allow people to fight(gimped obviously) and represents people being able to beat the crap out each other. This seems like a much better plan.
The intent, was to make an option in which everyday people could fight with fists, (in a non effient way.) to allow them to A) Defend themselves whent he chips are down. and B. Better represent the way people can kill each other with their bare hands. The current rage/hero solution does NOT accomplish this.
the 5 second count DOES accomplish this. You could make the 5 second count, keep the crush rule, and your good. Now everyone can fight with one fist, but if you are fighting someone with a weapon your hosed.
rage/hero: Allows abuse. Does not allow everyone to fight, and does not represent normal people beating the crap out of each other.
5 second count:Allows less abuse, does allow people to fight(gimped obviously) and represents people being able to beat the crap out each other. This seems like a much better plan.
Travis Cole